Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico

Washington, DC 20594 March 10, 2004
************************************************************ SECOND UPDATE ON NTSB INVESTIGATION
INTO NEW MEXICO FREIGHT TRAIN COLLISION ************************************************************ The National Transportation Safety Board launched a Go
Team to investigate the collision of two Union Pacific
freight trains in Carrizozo, New Mexico, at 7:54 a.m. MST,
February 21, 2004. The two crewmembers of the eastbound
train died in the collision; the two crewmembers aboard the
westbound train were not injured. This is an update of the
Board's investigation. During the course of the investigation, NTSB
investigators were informed that a green leafy substance and
smoking paraphernalia were found on the remains of the
eastbound train's engineer. These were taken to the State of
New Mexico, Department of Public Safety's Crime Lab in Las
Cruces, New Mexico. The green leafy substance and burnt
vegetation from the smoking paraphernalia tested positive
for marijuana. The accident met the threshold for mandatory post
accident toxicological testing of the train crews involved,
including the fatally injured crewmembers, under the
regulations of the Federal Railroad Administration. The
NTSB has been informed of the results. Toxicological results
from the westbound grain train crew and the eastbound train
deceased conductor were negative for all drugs tested.
Toxicological results from the deceased engineer from the
eastbound train were positive for marijuana. The NTSB is
arranging for further toxicological testing on additional
samples at a separate facility. The crew of the eastbound train had passed three
wayside signals that informed the crew of the need to reduce
speed and to be prepared to stop their train before passing
the last signal, which was just before the point of the
collision. The signal testing by the NTSB signal group,
which included representatives from the Federal Railroad
Administration and the State of New Mexico railroad
inspectors, determined that the signal system had displayed
the correct signal aspects for the train to reduce speed and
stop before the collision. Event recorder data indicated that the throttle of the
eastbound train was in a high power setting and that the
speed of the train was not reduced in a manner that would
comply with signal indications. Sight distance testing at
the location of the signals in advance of the location of
the accident and at the location of the stop signal at the
point of the collision revealed no sight obstruction to the
signals. The event recorders from both locomotives of the
striking (eastbound) train recorded a speed of 36 mph at
impact, with no input from the crew for several miles before
the collision, including no braking action before impact. The crew of the eastbound train was on duty for 7
hours and 34 minutes before the accident. Investigators
reviewed the amount of off-duty time that was available for
the crews to have rest before starting on the trip in which
the accident occurred and found that the engineer had been
off duty for 26 hours and 55 minutes. The conductor of the
eastbound train had been off duty for 12 hours and 50
minutes. Federal law permits crewmembers to work a maximum
of 12 consecutive hours. The NTSB's investigation continues. - 30 - NTSB Media Contact: Ted Lopatkiewicz
(202) 314-6100
Now what the f*** was he thinking. Now you see what that caused. If your gonna roll a fatty, do it on your own time, and not on the job. He made a fatal mistake because he was "cheefing"(as we call it in arkansas) on the job. Weed and the railroad do not mix, as well as any other job. The railroads carry too much dangerous stuff and can cause a environmental disaster to be under the influence. If I was to catch a fellow railroader "rolling up one" on the job I would report him/her immediately, and try to keep myself from puttin some thunder cookies upside his head. Its a shame a tragedy was caused that way.

The best railroad there ever was

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RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, SVTS, Mar-11-04, 06:55 AM, (1) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, chucksc, Mar-11-04, 12:40 PM, (2) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, Gecko, Mar-11-04, 02:13 PM, (3) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, FURX, Mar-11-04, 02:48 PM, (4) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, AEM7AC 920, Mar-11-04, 04:54 PM, (5) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, ssw_96, Mar-11-04, 05:06 PM, (6) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, ATSF104, Mar-11-04, 05:17 PM, (7) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, njineer, Mar-11-04, 05:41 PM, (8) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, CPTrainman59R, Apr-08-04, 10:17 PM, (25) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, davereage, Mar-12-04, 11:22 AM, (14) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, Ohara, Apr-03-04, 07:54 PM, (24) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, yellowdog, Mar-11-04, 05:54 PM, (9) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, CGW409, Mar-11-04, 07:18 PM, (10) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, zachattack, Mar-11-04, 08:54 PM, (11) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, Cell0518, Mar-15-04, 05:48 PM, (18) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, WestSlopeRRfan, Mar-12-04, 03:56 AM, (12) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, shoskins, Mar-12-04, 11:00 AM, (13) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, csxac44_69, Mar-13-04, 10:59 AM, (15) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, amadjuster, Mar-16-04, 02:27 PM, (19) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, chucksc, Mar-15-04, 07:57 AM, (17) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, Hobart, Mar-13-04, 11:27 AM, (16) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, Night Train, Mar-16-04, 08:19 PM, (20) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, AEM7AC 920, Mar-16-04, 09:40 PM, (21) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, nadnerb1982, Mar-17-04, 02:54 AM, (22) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, Kowak555, Mar-17-04, 02:00 PM, (23) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, CPTrainman59R, Apr-08-04, 10:26 PM, (26) RE: Some Sad News Regarding The Wreck In New Mexico, ssw, Apr-08-04, 11:19 PM, (27)

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Interesting.Chris Bogley
Syracuse New York
www.msnusers.com/AshleyPhotography
www.msnusers.com/tehachapirails3rd shift Production, Krispy Kreme, Syracuse NYAmtrak "American Eagle" Activity Pack, Summer 2004

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I wondered where Ricky Gates hired on when he got out of jail!Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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Reading this yesterday, My brother in law and I both noticed that any mention of the conductor is absent, we were both thinking where the he__ he was!!
George

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Ricky? I think that was him on the UP trainI:You know, that mad me think of the wreck in Chase too-Jeffrey
Like the song says, "drivin' that train; high on cocain"

Courteous Future Engineer
NKP 2-8-4 #765. www.765.org
Chessie System Historical Society. http://moosevalley.org/cshs/
My Website; www.xanga.com/csxd765

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Yikes all these engineer's and conductors on crack etc time to do some more drug tests.

AEM7AC 920
How do you like your toast?

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The conductors remains were tested and the results were negative for any type of drugs. But since the joint was smoked and had been put out, had he smoked it in the cab???? was the conductor sleep????
There are a lot of questions surrounding this accident that we'll prolly never know.

The best railroad there ever was

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Interesting the Santa Fe had an accident like that were the crew was helped on the train in Needles and got to some area on the transcon and ran into the back of another train. Only the brakeman in the caboose was killed. But those guys were thrown in jail for manslaughter.-MattATSF GP60M #104 works on the local in Flagstaff, AZ.

www.atsfrr.com
(Layout Progress---Phase 4 Scenery)
Cheesecake: A slice of cheese on cake, we'll even cut it for you.

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Yes it is amazing the stupidity that some railroaders have and for that fact anybody. Now and then the CN/IC would go out and test several crews in a district. Everybody had a good idea it was coming snd they would still nab a few each time for alchohal and or drugs. These guys must really be hooked if they cannot avoid obvious rules such as Rule G.I might take some slack for this but they are just to dammed stupid to work on the railroad.CSK

Highball

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as a past railway trainman, CPR,now a transport driver, Railroaading is not the only work Rule G is abused. as a transport driver out of Canada I have been tested many times. I'M 63 years old. some of our younger drivers have never benn tested by a random call from our transportation board. Some of them should be!!!! Testing is good but it seems to be the ones who never need it that are tested. when I worked on the spare board , many times when the grain trains were running we were getting off one and returning back. without rest. Hours of service mean nothing when the company needs their trains run!!!CPTrainman59R
R Carter
Trucker58R@netscape.net

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>The conductors remains were tested and the results were
>negative for any type of drugs. But since the joint was
>smoked and had been put out, had he smoked it in the cab????
> was the conductor sleep???? That's what I was wondering, how the hell did the conductor not notice the three wayside signals they passed, maybe he was too busy laughing at the engineer?On a semi-related note, to all the kids on this board, if you need another reason not to do drugs, just look at Ozzy Osbourne. I think he's the best walking "don't do drugs" billboard you could hope for. Dave Reage - Beta Tester
Halifax, Canada

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you can say that again!

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Hmm, the deceased conductor must have been holding his breath or standing out on the porch if he didn't have anything in his system. Second-hand pot smoke will show up on a drug screen just as well as first hand smoke.

Clayton

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Clayton
I'm unfamiliar with RR ops but have seen engine crewmembers leave the cab while underway(I was pacing the train at the time) to restart a dead unit could this be a case of "I better go back and check on the # 2 unit...." and then firing one up on the back of the unit once out of sight?
In any case it's a pretty damn stupid thing to do,it's one thing to take yourself out of the gene pool in a spectacularly stupid manuver but this mope took innocents with him and one can only thank God that neither train was hauling anything extremly nasty that could have killed a whole lot more.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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I think these people deserve a Darwin Award!

Zach Lybrand

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Uh, thats not humor zach. Thats down right stupid. Dumb a** even...
PLEASE Visit->

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Times sure have changed on the railroad. It used to be that trainmen came to work drunk or carried bottles of whiskey in their pockets. And no one cared. Today BNSF has a zero tolerance for drugs and alcohol. If you had to pee in a cup and you came up with 0.01% alcohol you are in serious doo-doo. You are only allowed two such instances per 10 years before you get canned. Makes you rethink drinking!This accident is a terrible tragedy. Its just scary to even begin to question what the guy in the other cab might be on. NickBNSF Conductor Trainee

D&RGW's Soldier Summit
100% track laid
40% roads laid
.05% scenery done.

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>Times sure have changed on the railroad. It used to be that
>trainmen came to work drunk or carried bottles of whiskey in
>their pockets. And no one cared. I know that all too well. My grandfather was an engineer on the New Haven. And he had a serious drinking problem....couldn't pass a bar in the Bronx without helping its profit margin.

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Just because he had maryjane in his system and had it on him, doesn't mean he smoked it while on duty. It takes weeks to get marijuana out of your system, so you cant really say he smoked it at a specific time. As far as the stuff being on him, he could of been carrying it and waiting till he got off duty to smoke it.. Who knows..-csxac44_69

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Yeah, and Osama is really a misunderstood guy who was picked on by bullies!What an a$$hole response!DP - Sober

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And he had a serious drinking
>problem....couldn't pass a bar in the Bronx without helping
>its profit margin. Sounds like the Irish Side of my family too..
Including the ones who were cops or firemen......
Chuck Schneider
Chief Cook, Bottle Washer and (Virtual) CEO

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>The event recorders from both locomotives of the
>striking (eastbound) train recorded a speed of 36 mph at
>impact, with no input from the crew for several miles before
>the collision, including no braking action before impact. This leads me to believe they were both asleep. Same type of thing happend at Corona, CA about 15 years ago, only the engineer stated to the TM he was too tired to make the trip. The TM said you can make the trip or pack up your stuff. Ordered to take the siding at Corona he dozed off and rolled thru the siding back out on the main. Real railroding is a tough buisness.

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>This leads me to believe they were both asleep. wouldnt the alerter acknowlege them or if not
go into emergency?

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There is the chance that it was disabled which is illegal so i doubt that, but maybe they could of just fell asleep or something.

AEM7AC 920
How do you like your toast?

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Stupid thing to do. Just wondering though, were the trains involved fitted with "dead man's" buttons or other such vigilance devices? I find it interesting that stoned people could respond to a bell or light every 60 seconds but not to signals, and didnt even see the backside of a train.
Above - A Fishtank crossing the Coathangar

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All it takes to disable the button is to put your metal lunch box on top of it. {ANTESTOR}
Steve.

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or the clip off the track detonators. or a flagstaff. every engineer i ran with shut off thew dead man!!!CPTrainman59R
Trucker58R@netscape.net

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Can we please stop dredging up old dead posts? Thanks.

Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

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