Trainz V MSTS

LAST EDITED ON Feb-16-04 AT 05:54 AM (EST)

Well, after seeing some MSTS V Trainz posts lately, I understand that people out there dont like Trainz, and I totally respect that!! Thats fine with me! But other people do happen to like Trainz as well as MSTS!Rules are going to be simple, Any posts long the lines "Why do you all hate Trainz?" will be automatically locked.What must be understood is people posting about JUST Trainz in the GENERAL forum is fine, as it is specific any simulator. What the other moderators and myself will not tolerate is the "Trainz V MSTS" flamewars.If anyone is unhappy with what I have had to say, feel free to PM me or email me (email is in my sig). Thanks!>Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com

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RE: Trainz V MSTS, Koziolean, Feb-16-04, 06:21 AM, (1) RE: Trainz V MSTS, dti407, Feb-16-04, 06:27 AM, (2) RE: Trainz V MSTS, dgauci, Feb-16-04, 10:06 AM, (5) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-16-04, 07:58 AM, (3) RE: Trainz V MSTS, ASR_Q301, Feb-16-04, 08:27 AM, (4) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-16-04, 02:09 PM, (6) RE: Trainz V MSTS, CBF, Feb-16-04, 03:17 PM, (7) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-16-04, 04:30 PM, (8) RE: Trainz V MSTS, Stooopid_person, Feb-17-04, 08:43 AM, (10) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-17-04, 01:38 PM, (11) RE: Trainz V MSTS, happyj, Feb-19-04, 08:04 AM, (29) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-19-04, 08:25 AM, (30) RE: Trainz V MSTS, happyj, Feb-19-04, 03:14 PM, (31) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-19-04, 04:03 PM, (32) CORRECTION, OTTODAD, Feb-20-04, 08:01 AM, (33) Worse to come !, OTTODAD, Feb-20-04, 09:05 AM, (34) RE: Worse to come !, happyj, Feb-20-04, 03:28 PM, (37) RE: Trainz V MSTS, JohnNetzlof, Feb-16-04, 08:18 PM, (9) RE: Trainz V MSTS, NW_611, Feb-17-04, 02:33 PM, (12) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-17-04, 04:28 PM, (13) RE: Trainz V MSTS, AlphaMaster, Feb-17-04, 05:03 PM, (14) RE: Trainz V MSTS, CBF, Feb-17-04, 06:36 PM, (15) RE: Trainz V MSTS, Stetrain12, Feb-17-04, 08:20 PM, (17) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-20-04, 10:22 AM, (36) RE: Trainz V MSTS, chucksc, Feb-20-04, 09:25 AM, (35) RE: Trainz V MSTS, shoskins, Feb-17-04, 06:48 PM, (16) RE: Trainz V MSTS, Stetrain12, Feb-17-04, 08:23 PM, (18) RE: Trainz V MSTS, shoskins, Feb-17-04, 09:10 PM, (20) RE: Trainz V MSTS, DKlemm, Feb-18-04, 11:54 AM, (22) RE: Trainz V MSTS, shoskins, Feb-18-04, 03:58 PM, (23) RE: Trainz V MSTS, georgi55_activated, Feb-18-04, 10:34 PM, (25) RE: Trainz V MSTS, stryder47, Feb-17-04, 08:30 PM, (19) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-18-04, 09:24 AM, (21) RE: Trainz V MSTS, chucksc, Feb-18-04, 09:45 PM, (24) RE: Trainz V MSTS, Magick_maker, Feb-18-04, 10:34 PM, (26) RE: Trainz V MSTS, georgi55_activated, Feb-18-04, 10:37 PM, (27) RE: Trainz V MSTS, ASR_Q301, Feb-19-04, 06:39 AM, (28) RE: Trainz V MSTS, CGW409, Mar-14-04, 12:58 PM, (64) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Mar-15-04, 07:18 AM, (65) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, OTTODAD, Feb-21-04, 10:54 AM, (38) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, sinclair97, Feb-21-04, 05:53 PM, (39) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, Stetrain12, Feb-21-04, 07:39 PM, (40) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, dgauci, Feb-21-04, 08:33 PM, (41) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, Stetrain12, Feb-21-04, 09:04 PM, (42) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, dgauci, Feb-22-04, 09:50 AM, (51) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, OTTODAD, Feb-21-04, 09:24 PM, (43) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, Stetrain12, Feb-21-04, 09:32 PM, (44) RE: Trainz V MSTS Observations, OTTODAD, Feb-22-04, 06:23 AM, (48) RE: Trainz V MSTS, lrperkins, Feb-22-04, 00:03 AM, (45) Ottodad, happyj, Feb-22-04, 02:46 AM, (46) RE: Ottodad, OTTODAD, Feb-22-04, 06:21 AM, (47) RE: Ottodad, lrperkins, Feb-22-04, 08:28 AM, (49) RE: Ottodad, happyj, Feb-22-04, 08:46 AM, (50) RE: Ottodad, Magick_maker, Feb-23-04, 08:35 PM, (52) RE: Ottodad, lrperkins, Feb-24-04, 00:59 AM, (53) RE: Trainz V MSTS, gatewaycityca, Feb-24-04, 01:34 AM, (54) RE: Trainz V MSTS, georgi55_activated, Feb-24-04, 03:00 PM, (55) RE: Trainz V MSTS, zzzchristian, Feb-25-04, 01:40 PM, (56) RE: Trainz V MSTS, bnsf50, Feb-27-04, 12:58 PM, (57) RE: Trainz V MSTS, dgauci, Feb-27-04, 02:51 PM, (58) RE: Trainz V MSTS, bnsf50, Feb-28-04, 11:30 AM, (59) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Feb-28-04, 01:16 PM, (60) RE: Trainz V MSTS, dgauci, Feb-28-04, 01:28 PM, (61) RE: Trainz V MSTS, Meridious, Feb-29-04, 09:42 PM, (62) RE: Trainz V MSTS, hhdawrs, Mar-06-04, 00:00 AM, (63) RE: Trainz V MSTS, kinnie_III, Mar-22-04, 03:34 PM, (66) RE: Trainz V MSTS, oakpalms, Mar-24-04, 08:14 AM, (67) RE: Trainz V MSTS, OTTODAD, Mar-24-04, 12:17 PM, (68)

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Bugger, I thought we were going to have a debate!!!Actually, that would be alot of fun!!!"That MSTS is better than TRAINZ"1st Speaker for the Affirmative please take the stand!Koz

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>What the other moderators and myself will not tolerate is
>the "Trainz V MSTS" flamewars. I think most forum members will agree with the above quote.Greg Zoll

DT&I MSTS Addons Coming Mid-2004
Email: greg@dti407.tk
http://www.dti407.tk
http://dti407.blogspot.com

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Agreed. No reason to justify one by constantly trying to bash the other.

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Hi Mike !I don't think anybody should have any problems debating the merits of Train Sims only ! But then there is always the "Odd" one ! As you are our TRAINZ Forum MOD and obviously a bit of an expert on the subject, can you answer this question I put to Greg Lane but have not had an answer to yet.His announcement about the Future of AURAN Train-Sims looks interesting, if it turns into reality one day, that is.What I have never been happy with was the TRAINZ SPLINING method of laying tracks, making them look unrealistic and not visually functioning like real ones. O.K. there are better 3rd-Party Track systems, but they can not be used to replace the Default Tracks and their Splined Switches / Points which come with the Default Software and can only be used with new Routes created specifically using them.That's a lot of work the average user does not want to get involved in, having to find all that 3rd-Party stuff in the first place.What are the prospects of TRS-NEXT having a Tracks System similar to MSTS ? I am asking you this personally because similar questions in our TRAINZ Forum did not produce any useful replies ! O t t o

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>As you are our TRAINZ Forum MOD and obviously a bit of an expert on the subjectIm not actually sorry Otto! I am a MSTS man! hehehe>Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com

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Sorry Mike ! I got you mixed up with the real Trainz Mod ! Must have been the "Australia" bit which made me think you might be one of their users ! PERTH ? That's where my MSTS friend "EMU FARMER" Frank Carver lives. Got to mention you to him when he comes visiting in March !Take Care, O t t o.

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Hi Otto;Could you briefly describe the main differences and similarities of the two systems? I had the Trainz trial version at one time, but never got it to run properly.Thanks, in advance.Chuck F.

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Hi Chuck !The question you are asking is not one easily answered. I too wondered a long time ago and purchased TRAINZ in 2002.What put me off straight away was their Track System, SPLINING tracks which made Switches look unrealistic, no Switch Blades moving visibly and too much clutter on screen, some of which could be removed however. Graphics were not all that impressive either.Then along came TRS-2004, I also purchased, expecting a significant improvement. However the Track System has not changed and creating Routes with the Surveyor, or amending existing ones, is something to get used to after having worked with the MSTS Route Editor.It's more like creating a Model Railway Layout than a Train Sim.It has it's advantages though, like a MOVING MAP which shows you where your Player Unit is in the Route, other drivable Units you can change to either in the MOVING MAP or in the Route itself and change Driver Cabs in a Loco or Trainset by simply clicking on the one you want to use and the direction of travel changes with it.There is much lacking, the same as is in MSTS, such as realistic sounds going over switches and different track types, Steam Locos sound not synchronised with the revolution of their wheels, etc. That is just scratching the surface, giving TRS-2004 a brief try.I decided to stick with MSTS until the next version. But if AURAN can do what they say they are planning then MICROSOFT will have their work cut out ! O t t o

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>There is much lacking, the same as is in MSTS, such as
>realistic sounds going over switches and different track
>typesIf you want to do that, get BVE! Different track types are possible. I think it was the PO&N route? Where MSTS doesn't recognise it as a different track type as the new track type is laid over it?
You can get the "switch" sounds. But you'll have to edit the route at every switch that when you go over it, it plays a sound.

-----You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!-----
Or probably, maybe you should waste your time reading it.
Eh, where did my signature go?
Oh, here it is, the one you are reading right now? Can't you see it? I know I know, it's probably too bright to see it.
Hey, look at my avatar, nice right? I drew it with my own hands holding the mouse in Paint, with the pencil tool(and the Filling tool!)!
It's a picture of me in Planet Stooopid, where everything is the same as what you call "Earth" except that we are called "aliens" in your planet.
Anyway, I warned you not waste time reading my signature! You have just wasted probably about 30 seconds reading it, where you could have spent the time doing better things, like maybe reading the next post below if there is one...

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Hi Phil,yes, I got BVE-2.5 too and am looking forward to Version 3 ! I have been messing with Sounds for Switches / Points, creating specific "Sound Regions", but found that with long ones like 5° it is difficult to create the appropriate sound, borrowed from one of the *.wav files, when the wheels go over the Frog. It also does not work when the train reverses over one.There could be a sound trigger at every Frog, be that in a Crossing or a Switch, playing a properly recorded sound, internally when the Loco goes over it and externally for every Loco, waggon ?Yes, Jim Ward came up with this idea of laying "Dummy Tracks" over existing ones to have different looking tracks side by side, but it is a lot of work as is creating Sounds for every Switch ! I think I shall wait and see ! Take Care, O t t o.

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Otto.I do not agree about graphics in Trainz. To me they are far more realistic than in MSTS which often look stilted. Have you ever run the built in route "Tidewater" in TRS 2004. This route has more realistic scenery than anything I have in MSTS, although I admit you need a lot of CPU to run it. To get a great impression of running a loco I used one of PhilC'c SD70 MACS that give many varied in cab views.Although I found the main Yard not to my likiing I was able to rework the whole thing in half an hour in Surveyor, something I wouldn't dream of attempting in MSTS Route EditorCheers.

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No, I haven't tried that Route, going to check it out, Henry. It's just looking at and driving over SPLINED Default Switches which spoils it for me, to be put right in future versions, I hear could be on the cards.O t t o

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There are other better switches available although I have never tried to use them myself as I am only beginning to get my feet wet in Surveyor, something I would never attempt in MSTS.One factor that I find to advantage in Trainz Is the size of downloads. All are acheivable within dial up which like yourself I am limited to.Keep fit. Keep well.

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Hi Henry,had another look at TRS-2004 and could not find the engine you mentioned so I used another one after creating a "Session" in the "Tidewater Point Rail" Route and noticed that the Wheels do not seem to run on top of the Rails:B.t.w, Ctrl-F2 does not work in my version of the SURVEYOR ! In this scene the track seems to float above the terrain, something I noticed in other Default Routes.Switches ? There are some better 3rd-Party ones, but why should I have to do all the work again to make TRS-2004 what it should be right "Out of the Box" ! As for GRAPHICS, they are bound to be better considering the Advanced Graphics Engine they are using, but looking at the Detail of the Track Bed in the second Screen shot forinstance, wasted !!! I shall need some convincing that the planned new versions of TRS are what they are alleged to improve upon before buying them ! O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-04 AT 08:51 AM (EST)

Ctrl-F2 does work, after placing the first Consist into the Surveyor Route. Logic should have told me that before ! Spotted this just now, Flying Cars and the Road is going under the Track which is still floating above the Terrain ! Looks like there is still a fair amount of work to be done by all Train Sims ! O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-04 AT 09:13 AM (EST)

Looks like a rushed product once again, trying to take advantage of the absence of a new MSTS ? They will have to do better than that ! O t t o

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I don't know what is going on with your set-up. I get none of that phenomena, the wheels turn, and run on the tracks on my layout. Tried with two different locos, an SW 3 an an SD70MAC. Both performed well. although I did not run the whole route in this test. AS for track in the air ,especially without ballast, I have never seen that anywhere on the route so far. Will take a closer look when I find more time.Cheers., Henry.

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Now, i'm probably going to be mauled for this, but...I personally have not played Trainz, and I'm a big MSTS guy, ha dit on Pre-order, etc...but I admit when Trainz screenies started showing up I was liking the looks of it. I really like Trainz 2004 as well, and it'll probably be mine soon.
--------

What I've Felt, What I've known, Never shinned threw in what I've shown. Never Free, Never Me, So I dub Thee Unforgiven

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Can someone explain to me the difference between a 'model railroad simulator' and a 'railroad simulator'? Maybe I didn't get the memo, but much weight seems to be placed upon this distinction, and I'd like to have it explained.Frustrated exclamation: I wish I could run Trainz, because it's got a tilting TGV and a GG1. I really wanted to like the game, but the Auran graphics engine hates my video card. I'd like to have both products fully operational, but that just ain't possible.

____________________________________________________________________
Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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There is no difference between a "Model RailRoad Simulator" and a "Railroad Simulator". Both can be designed and set up to act just like Prototypical Railroads.I have seen many Märklin Gauge-HO "Model Railroad" layouts in Germany which function even better than real Railroads, their Electronics and Digital Systems capable of preventing accidents I wish U.K. operators would use ! What many mean by "Model Railroad Simulator" is really "Toy Train Layouts" which you can use any way you like, irrespective of "Prototypical Procedures".One way or the other, they are "SIMULATING" Railways and it is up to the user to decide which they prefer ! O t t o

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I'm your friendly Trainz mod!

Danny - Pittsburgh

There's a light at the end of every tunnel, just pray it's not a train.

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Hi Otto! Thanks for you previous reply.One Question - Does Trainz come with prebuilt routes, or do your have to build a route before you can run trains?Thanks, again. Chuck F.

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CBF: TRS2004 comes with 6/7 routes. Some contain interactive industries, some don't. Otto: TRS2004 DOES have syncronized steam sounds as part of it's full steam support. That is one of the major selling points!

12-year-old Simulator Adict

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Hi Stetson !Sorry, did not read your reply about "Synchronised Steam Sounds" before.The one is my message here does not sound "Synchronised" :
http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=7814&forum=DCForumID1&omm=34&viewmode=By that I mean it does not Chuff in Sync with every full revolution of it's driving wheels, which in the case of a 4-cylinder Steam Loco is 4 Chuffs for every full turn of the driving wheels ! Are there other TRS-2004 Steam Locos which Chuff like the real ones ?O t t o

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>I'm your friendly Trainz mod! We promise not to hold it against you!
LOL!Chuck Schneider

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I think it all boils down to....Some people like Ford, some people like Chevy.I did not know about Trainz when I first started dabbling with MSTS a little over two years ago, saw it on sale for $19.95 and thought, what the heck, if it isn't to my liking, I didn't spend much.I did see a demo of Trainz at one of the Great American Train Shows, and thought it looked very interesting, but the price was what kept me away. The chap at the GATS was offering a "show special price" of FIFTY DOLLARS!!! And right as I got home from the show, I was seeing it advertised for $34.95 (the very same edition...."UTC"!!)
Some show special....I guess a lot of our preferences for MSTS / Trainz is which program we started using first....and got most comfortable with.

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Got TRS2004 for $39.00 at BestBuy. Also, remeber that MSTS probably cost around the same when it first came out.

12-year-old Simulator Adict

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>Got TRS2004 for $39.00 at BestBuy. Also, remeber that MSTS
>probably cost around the same when it first came out. List price for MSTS when first released was $47.99.But the point I was making was that the salesman at the train show was purportedly giving a "show special" price, when other outlets were giving a price much lower, the very same day!!

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I saw at the GATS show this weekend MSTS for 49.99. Hobby stores that deal with trains are not in tune with software distribution. He probably has had that copy for 2 years. I laughed and thought, if he only knew.

David Klemm
Illinos & St Louis Divisions
IC Version 1.0 uploaded

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>I saw at the GATS show this weekend MSTS for 49.99. Hobby
>stores that deal with trains are not in tune with software
>distribution. He probably has had that copy for 2 years.
>I laughed and thought, if he only knew. True...but the price I quoted ($34.99) was for the very same edition...Trainz UTC....at a major electronics/software store (and it was right up the street from where the train show was to boot!!)

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It's still special as it doesn't say it's special "low" price.
It could be special high price as it was in this case

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Well, I have both and I think there is a very big difference. With Trainz you run basically a railroad like you can set up in your basement and with MSTS you run longer routes and more realistic routes.
Trainz did not like my video card either and it looked as though it were running in the fog all the time. I did like some of the things you could do that you can't in MSTS but overall, I prefer MSTS. It just seems more realistic than Trainz.
Each to their own though. Some guys swear by Trainz and that is their business if that is what they like. I happen to prefer MSTS. A matter of what one likes to do.
Should be interesting to see what happens if MSTS2 comes out though. It will force Trainz to come up with what I guess they are going to come up with, something along the lines of MSTS and then the style they have now. I don't see how they will be able to keep up with both, but should be interesting. One thing about Trainz, they take an active part in keeping it updated and supporting it, unlike MSTS where all of the support comes from its users.TimWestern Maryland Railroad
Gone, but not forgotten!

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Tim,never having been happy with the appearance of SPLINED TRAINZ Default Tracks right up to TRS-2004, I asked them what they are going to do about it with the next generations of it, announced recently and this is their response:

Hi Otto,Thanks for your email. We would like you to know that while final details are yet to be set in stone, new track will almost certainly feature in the Engineers Edition. Once again, thanks for your constructive input.

Cheers,
Lance Jago
Auran
helpdesk@auran.comWhy can we not get a similar response from MICROSOFT ? Is it perhaps that they have not decided yet what the Future of their MSTS is going to be ? AURAN could be smelling Blood there ! O t t o

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Otto will you get the heck off your "I'm gonna try and intimidate MS into revealing details of MSTS 2 before they are ready" kick already?
Sheesh give it a rest....
They are not gonna answer you!
They don't ever "Pre-Release" software or details about it until it is almost "in the can" as the film makers put it....
When they talk about it it's damn near ready...
Besides it's more fun for them to keep Auran on pins and needles about what the 800lb gorilla is gonna do next... Chuck Schneider

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To say that all Trainz tracks don't have point blades and such is completely wrong.There are some third party tracks available, that still work on the spline system, but have points, blades, frogs, and all wing rails. And, they're highly detailed.Personally, I like trainz for what I can do. Currently I've got 3 routes under construction. All in "real scale"One, is a 2 foot guage line that's approx 20 miles long. Give or take a mile. (the max speed is 30, so it feels longer than it is.)The second is a standard guage, set in the current time and is around 16 miles long, but connects to two other major lines.The last, is hardly finished but in the planning stages, and will be a full 60 miles long end to end, and set in the mid to late 30's.

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>what the 800lb gorilla is gonna do next...
>
>Chuck Schneider The ones in Zoo throw their dung at people.

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>>what the 800lb gorilla is gonna do next... >The ones in Zoo throw their dung at people. ROFLMAO!! I just got one funny mental image with the folk at Auran! >Mike Forster<
Perth, Western Australiapacificnational_nr103@hotmail.com

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Actually I just picked up TRS04 for 19.99 at the local EB(gonna probably be the most expensive bit of "cheap" software I've bought once I upgrade my motherboard,vidcard and such to get it to run)My problem with the original Trainz was the model railroad aspect of no prototypical lighting such as Mars lights on F units and such(apparently a drawback with the original now supposedly fixed with TRS04) but I'm willing to go through the upgrades to get it to run and if it's not all I'm looking for at least my system will be ready for MSTS2.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-04 AT 07:22 AM (EST)

There are many of us, including me, getting bored with waiting for MSTS-NEXT, who got themselves TRS-2004, only to find that is has a long way to go before it can beat MSTS as it is today.It has a few things I would like to see in MSTS, such as it's MOVING MAP (sorry guys for keeping on about that ) and the ability to change Trains in a Session and switch driving Cabs.So there it is, gathering dust until it gets better than what we already have with MSTS-1.1/1.2 and Routes like the new SURFLINER, another mile stone in the progress of today's MSTS !!! O t t o

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A recent message in this Thread made me look into TRS-2004 some more and these are some of the observations I came across, comparing MSTS with TRS in FREESTYLE Mode.PANTO touching the Overhead Wire spot on. PANTO too high.
Many choices of easy to use Trackbeds and Rails. "Floating" unrealistic looking Trackbeds.
Real looking Switches / Points with moving Blades. "SPLINING" UGH ! This Loco's flangeless Wheels do not turn.
F8 Hideable Switches / Points Indicator. Red and Green Switches Pointers spoiling the Terrain View.
NEW Multiple Environment Choices and brighter Colours. "Gamma" Control inadequate, not sure about Environments ?
ROUTE EDITOR - to be improved upon ? SURVEYOR EXCELLENT, but touchy and over-sensitive Camera !
Better Choice of variable Internal and External Views. But has MOVING MAP !!!
Use of only one Player Train in Activities. Unlimited use of all Trains in a Session with choice of
Driver Cab Fore and Aft in each Train !
This is just skimming over the top of TRS-2004, not looking at everything with my usual "Magnifying Glass".Right now I got everything on Hold, MSTS as well as TRS, waiting for BVE-3. Whichever comes up with what I want from a Train-Sim is going to be my FAVOURITE ! O t t o

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Hi Otto,One of the objects (a fir tree) from the screen shots you showed in posts 33 and 34 looks awfully nice, so what I want to know if I were to rush out and buy Trainz (again), would I be able to copy over the tree files to the Route folder of MSTS, or is is a bit more complicated than that?Mike<> Michael Sinclair

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-04 AT 07:47 PM (EST)

A couple of notes, Otto:A) That is not default MSTS Track. There is some very nice third-party Trainz Track.
B)Splinig is not the only method. There are "fixed-track" pieces under the objects tab(just like MSTS)
C)Most non-default trains have turning wheels. You are again comparing MSTS custom to Trainz default.
D) to turn off green/red arrows- with the menus visible, move your mouse to the top-left of the screen. On the small panal that pops up, click the button on the far right. Now they only show up when you hover your mouse over the switch.
E)I have seen floating MSTS track too.
F) About Track choices- I have over 100 different types of track currently in Trainz, and you can use as many different types as you want, in the same route, and there are thousands more to download.EDIT: Mike, MSTS and Trainz hve completetly different file systems.

12-year-old Simulator Adict

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>C)Most non-default trains have turning wheels. You are again
>comparing MSTS custom to Trainz default. On this one your wrong, unlike Trainz, all default cars in MSTS have rotating wheels.Also the MSTS track depicted is the MSTS default track shape, with a new texture shown. The Trainz track shown is also the default track shape, even with a new texture it would still be as unrealistic looking.

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-04 AT 09:17 PM (EST)

The sometimes flangless/non-turning wheels are for the sake of performance on slower machines, and I tend not to stare at the wheels of electric/diesel locos to see if ther wheels are turning and have flanges. Many default locos(including, of course, steam)have detailed wheels. EDIT: Pic of some non-floating default Track

12-year-old Simulator Adict

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Now your trying to spin the issue.While some may consider the external views unimportant as nothing more than eye candy, others like myself like the detail of the models in our sim. The more detail the better. In MSTS I could turn the sliders all the way down to increase performance, but the visual appearance would suffer so what would be the point? Rail-fanning and modeling is largely about external appearances.It is precisely because of these kind of issues that Trainz has been labeled toy like in appearance, the difference between a toy and a fine model is in the details.Look at the appearance of the default Trainz track ties compared to the default track ties in MSTS. Details.

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-04 AT 09:50 PM (EST)

Yep, Stetson, there is a lot to learn before you get the best out of any Train-Sim ! Fancy giving an Old-Timer some TRS-2004 Tuition ? The Manuals are inadequate, as always ! I wish they would supply comprehensive printed ones like in the good old days ! Some of the Key Functions printed on the "Keyboard Shortcuts" card supplied with my TRS-2004 are out of date too and SURVEYOR F7 is missing altogether !Take Care, O t t o.Edit-P.S.: You were a bit too quick there answering, Stetson !
Had a look at what you suggested about turning off the Switches Green/Red Arrows. Who would have guessed that option ? - On Screen Help turns them off as well as their descriptions ?

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-04 AT 09:33 PM (EST)

Sure, if you have any questions, just ask!Old-Timer Tip #1: Go to your TRS2004 directory and click on the file called "trainzoptions.txt". Enter the line "-fastmenus". Now the fade-in/fade-out effects for the menus are disabled, makeing moving around in them much quicker.

12-year-old Simulator Adict

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That worked a treat, Stetson ! Now is there a way to turn off the screeching and whistling while navigating Menus ? O t t o

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Hello,I have both Trainz and MSTS, I've built routes and objects for both programs. There are things about both that I like and don't like. And as we all know, there are things with both prgrams that we would love to see tweaked, fixed, and maybe even rebuilt from scratch.I look at it from the point of view that a train is a train is a train. Lonnie

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I cannot speak to your problems of floating track, and or locos as I have not experienced them, either on Tidewater which is a default route, or on any other that I have noticed so far. One reason may be that I rarely use default locomotives. One of the best locos that I have on file is an SD70 MAC from Phil Campbell. You can get it from www.virtual-motive-division.com in the freeware section. The cab views are quite something in my opinion.I would suggest you post your problems with floating track or locos in the TRS 2004 forums possibly under the Route Builders, or Content Creators fora where I am sure others more knowledgeable than I will offer suggestions or solutions.Cheers, Henry

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Hi Henry,yes I thought that the locos you mentioned were not default ones. Will have to try and get some TRS Add-Ons with my lousy 8 Kb.p.s. ISP connection when I got nothing better to do.The worst example of floating track as per my Steam Loco picture is in the HIGHLAND VALLEY INDUSTRIES, STEAMING CHIPS Session.Taking that train into the mountains and passing under the first bridge put the Camera to the left of the train and drop it down as far as it will go and you will long stretches where the Track floats up to 2 feet above the terrain. Haven't checked other Routes yet but bet that I will find similar.This is a flaw created by the TRS-2004 coders themselves, fixing it I should not have to do myself. Waiting for the next version ? Take Care, O t t o.

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Hi all,This talk about floating tracks makes me wonder if it's just that the terrain wasn't adjusted after the track was put in place. I mention this only because it was something that I ran into when I first started to use surveyor. It took a friend to point it out, at first I didn't even notice it.Lonnie

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Like you, I am relegated to dialup well into 2006,if I last that long.However, I have downloaded many locos from the Download Station as well as third party creators and as I recall most were only 10 to 15 minutes or so.As for floating track in Highland Valley I specifically ran it, and yes I did find the track floating slightly after I lowered the camera below the bridge, something it never occurred to me to try. However all other views appeared to be normal.Having had some experience as an Engineer, I am mostly interested in "in cab" views and condider most external views as eye candy.Keep well, Henry

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You know, you're probably right about that terrain problem. Myself, in one route i've made, I spent half an hour trying to get the terrain up to the track, only to miss or have it a bit too low.Sometimes, I wish it casted a shadow, it'd make life easier on building.

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One thing that I've noticed since it was brought to my attention, is that from one angle everything looks ok, and then you can move the camera around and see that things do look a little different.From one angle the track and ground level looks great, and then from another angle it looks like the track and ballast is floating.We might be looking at the same route, but from different points of view, seeing different things.Lonnie

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I don't have Trainz, but I would have to agree that compared to MSTS, in the screen shots I have seen, it does look a little "cartoonish" look to it, like running toy trains.I don't mean any offense to anyone who uses Trainz. Whichever you like most is your own business. This is just what I thought at the time. I remember the very first time I saw Trainz at the store, even the name of it turned me off a little. "Trainz" ??? That seemed kind of a corny name to me. MSTS had already been out a while (I got MSTS probably around when it first came out, in the summer of 2001.) I remember thinking at the time that it was a knock-off of Microsoft Train Simulator.And about spinning wheels...I can confirm that all of the default trains on Microsoft Train Simulator have fully detailed trucks and spinning wheels. I'm also one of those people who likes detail. I don't criticize custom trains and routes made by users, because I know how much work it is, and it is something being offered for free. But commercial programs are different. You can be more demanding. In fact, if that's true about some of the default trains on Trainz not having realistic details like this, that would have immediately turned me off. THAT is the difference between a "model railroad simulation" and a "Train Simulator." You want to feel as though you really are in the cab of a locomotive with tons of steel at your control, running through the Rocky Mountains...not controlling model trains on a trainset layout.Chris Tobar

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-24-04 AT 03:01 PM (EST)

You want to feel as though you really
>are in the cab of a locomotive with tons of steel at your
>control, running through the Rocky Mountains...not
>controlling model trains on a trainset layout.
>
>Chris Tobar Which is harder with MSTS's 2D cabs. Trainz has 3D cabs, and also if you want to feel like you are inside the cab, do you ever see the wheels from it?

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Actrully MSTS wasn't all the way they just released a little to early I think so trainz had the better half but now that there making MSTS 2!
I'm all MSTS 2 I want that out now!!!! but I can wait hehe

-----------------------------
The Amtrak Fan!
www.amtrak.com
My site - http://amtrakpage.bravehost.com

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-27-04 AT 01:20 PM (EST)

Hello everybody was just reading the posts here on MSTS V.Trainz and wanted to add somthing new I just found out a couple of days ago from the Trainz forum. First I use both Trainz and MSTS and like both. Like somebody here said a train is a train is a train.
Trainz is now working on a new Trainz, I beleive is called RSP-le and RSP-pro one for the average home user and the other for railroad companys to train there personnel with. Both scedualed to be released in 2005. What I thought was interesting was they said that the RSP-le would be comparible to MSTS-2. Could this be what the delay is with MSTS-2 that Microsoft and Auran are comparing notes, behind the scenes possibly, trying to come out with the best? And I don't mean to start a flame war here by any means.Edit:
If you want more information on this go to Trainz/General/the future of Trainz. Thanks
Clem
Bakersfield BNSF fan
Whisky for my men-----Beer for my horses

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>What I thought was interesting was they said that the RSP-le would be comparable to MSTS-2.I find this statement interesting in that since MSTS-2 has not even been released yet, how would Auran know if RSP-1e is going to be comparable or not? Or do we interpret that as Auran will release a product in 2005 that by being comparable to MSTS-2, it will already be outdated when it arrives.

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Dgauci, go back and read my post again and then think about it. Do you really believe that Ford doesn't know what GM is doing on next years model,..... until it hits the show room floor.
In other words, I believe that MS and Auraun are communicating. There not in to this, mines better than yours, as much as many people here in the forum are. There in buisness to sell games, and if they make them as close to the competition as possible, they will sell more games.
This is a good thing, competition is what makes for better products for the end user, us. If it weren't for competition we would still be walking everywhere or riding donkeys.
BTW they are called RSP-LE "Railroad Simulater Pro-Light Edition" for the gamers and RSP for the railroad companys for training purposes. Thanks
Clem
Bakersfield BNSF fan
Whisky for my men-----Beer for my horses

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Clem,you touched on something there which went through my mind some days ago !If you were in Microsoft's shoes, being faced with having to re-develop MSTS from the basement up and not many MSTS Experts in your organisation to do the job, most of the original ones having been part of the KUJU MSTS Development time here in the U.K., what would you do ?There was a response from Microsoft posted here some time ago, saying something about them looking for another Software House to take on a development FRANCHISE for MSTS. Now who can you think of, looking around in the Train Sim Industry to fit the bill ?AURAN recently announcing their plans for the Future of their Train Sim, coming close to my WISH LIST I put before KUJU and MICROSOFT last year, is more or less what many have asked MSTS-NEXT to be capable of.MICROSOFT have the biggest Train Sim Customer Base and Marketing Muscle and AURAN a certain Expertise on the subject, still to be improved upon and also an advanced Graphics Engine. Put the two together and you could start another success story to match the one of MICROSOFT FLIGHT SIM, AURAN eventually to be taken In-House the same way as the MS-FS Flight-Sim Contractor was ?Makes Sense ? O t t o

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-28-04 AT 01:56 PM (EST)

>Do you really believe that Ford doesn't know what GM is
>doing on next years model,..... until it hits the show room
>floor.
> In other words, I believe that MS and Auraun are
>communicating.You really must be kidding. While competing companies would try to keep abreast of each others business in the marketplace as much as possible, to take it so far as their communicating with each other to share notes on the future of their own competing game software is ridiculous.Would a elephant really care about a single flea on it's back? I'm fairly certain that Microsoft doesn't really care how well Auran fares, and I'm equally certain that Auran doesn't have Microsoft's best interest's at heart either. Both companies are just interested in making as much money as they can for themselves.I'll believe RSP when it goes retail, until then it's just vaporware with no physical evidence that the company involved can actually produce the product with the features they've pre-announced. (I work as a software developer, saying your going to create something and actually producing it are two different realities.)Edit: Otto, maybe Auran is fishing for a takeover from Microsoft, it would be Auran's dream come true.

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Hi. I'm a rookie here so please bear with me. I have MSTS as well as Trainz(UTC and TRS2004)and I like them all. I can do things in one that I can't in the other and vice versa. As I am a 3rd party content creator for Trainz, I don't get alot of time to actually run the trains. I enjoy creating for Trainz and would like to start creating for MSTS. However, it isn't easy with MSTS to check something I'm working on. If it is, someone please tell me how.
I am also a part of Trainz Pro Routes so I can tell you this.....
MRL - Montana Rail Link will be released soon. If you haven't been to the TPR website, check it out. They have it listed on their home page. 1 year in the making, 5 hours from end to end. To me, that's a long time to be working on a route. I dabble with Surveyor every so often but I lack the creativity to finish anything.
Also, the folks at TPR have released the LARS system. For those of you who don't know what that is, it is Logistics and Resource Sytem. Since I am primarily a content creator, I haven't had the time to mess around with it. This system is a 3rd party industry system to load and unload products. They/we are currently working on getting things "animated" for it. The only real problems using it are the rail cars as most of them (right now) are made in Paint Shed. This by itself creates most of the problems with any rolling stock used in TRS2004. What many have figured out is you have to install it twice to get it to work right. But, that is another story. Anyways, the LARS system has gotten some pretty good reviews by many members of the Trainz community. I coulde go on and on but I won't. If this sounds interesting to you, go to www.trainzproroutes.com and have a look.
As far as MSTS2 goes, I'm like everyone else,anxiously waiting for its release !!
Meridious

Meridious

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Meridious has it right about TPR.Another 3rd party that I like is Razorback. Both respond quickly to posts, treat posters with respect and make TRS2004 come alive.Aloha,
Herb

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There is a scenario writer program from http://www.trainzproroutes.com/
with this program anybody can create scenarios for Trainz. This is one thing that has been missing from Trainz.

Kinnie

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I think it is a bit naive to think that competitors would be giving away information that might be an improvement for another competitor. However, Auran is in the back seat of having to find out what Microsoft's new operating system is going to be like when it comes out in 2005 to complement the 64-bit architecture that computer chips will be running. I can see that Auran would need to know that in order to improve the performance of their future products. That in turn might cause them to provide Microsoft with some details on their train-sim software. But, working together? I kind of doubt that. I would think it is more like, I will give you this if you will give me that. In this case, I would think Auran will have to give more to get the minutia of details concerning the future operating system.

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Hi Bob !In order for a new Operating System to be successful and take off like a Rocket, Hardware Manufacturers, OEMs, Software Providers and a host of others need as much advance information as possible to enable them to prepare for it's Launch and BETA Test their products.If there is not enough 64-bit Hardware, Peripherals or Software tested and ready for it, Microsoft mights as well not bother releasing it ! Been talking to BORLAND about 64-bit versions of their DELPHI a couple of days ago and have been told that so far Microsoft have not given them any Information or Guide Lines on the subject to enable them to re-write their Software for it.As for exchanging Product Information, all you have to do is to buy the Competition's product and have a good look at how it works and compares with your's. If there is anything better in it then adopt the improvements, making sure not getting sued for infringing Design Copyrights ! MICROSOFT have been doing this for years and in some instances not getting away with it ! O t t o

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