Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad… Help!

In a surprising turn of events, the governor, aka wife, has given the go ahead for the construction of a model railroad to begin! It helps that my 2 year old loves trains (I think was excuse #1 on my behalf), and that we now have a basement, all be it, a small one, AND that she is out of town till late January. Sooo, a few questions for those that know more about this than I do.1) I plan to buy 1 or 2 4x8 sheets of plywood. Becasue of my back problems, and my 2 year old's hieght, I don't want it at normal hieght, as she would not be able to see it, and it would hurt my back standing for long periods while I work on it. So, would nailing the plywood to some 2x4's as a base be good enough, so it is more or less on the floor, but supported at the same time.2) How much are the power packs to run the trains, and how hard is it to get all that done? I am not much on electrical stuff, and I'm not out to have 16 trains running at once, just perhaps one of two on seperate tracks3) Track - What is a good, but not very exspensive track system to use, and what is the best way to secure the track?This is a LONG TERM project, as I am starting from scratch, and plan to add a little here and there. The first thing obviously is the base, and the track work. I still have not decided which scale. I like the HO size, but given the small room I have for it, I could get more out of N scale, except for the scenery and other details are smaller, and from what I see in stores, less to choose from, not to mention I have loads of vehichles already in HO scale.Chris Bogley
Syracuse New York
www.msnusers.com/highballphoto

3rd shift production, Krispy Kreme, East Syracuse NY. www.krispykreme.com

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RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, bnsf1959, Dec-10-03, 02:02 PM, (1) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, shoskins, Dec-10-03, 05:34 PM, (2) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, ssw, Dec-10-03, 05:53 PM, (3) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, ATSF104, Dec-10-03, 05:57 PM, (4) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, heavymetal91, Dec-10-03, 11:49 PM, (6) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, ATSF104, Dec-11-03, 06:12 PM, (7) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, atsfdude, Dec-10-03, 09:48 PM, (5) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, Gecko, Dec-11-03, 06:44 PM, (8) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, DKlemm, Dec-12-03, 05:51 PM, (9) Here are some shots from my layout... (56K alert), atsfdude, Dec-12-03, 08:52 PM, (10) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, sstyrnol, Dec-13-03, 05:20 AM, (11) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, CPR_Malice_96th, Dec-13-03, 09:41 AM, (12) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, rrchase, Dec-13-03, 10:58 PM, (13) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, wpfan, Dec-14-03, 00:56 AM, (14) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, NCC1701E, Dec-14-03, 01:14 AM, (15) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, NCC1701E, Dec-14-03, 01:25 AM, (16) RE: Governor of SVTS Household Approves Railroad...Help, CWA13000, Dec-14-03, 01:36 AM, (17)

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 02:06 PM (EST)

Chris,Your best start is buy some how-to-books from Kalmbach Publisher. They have a lot of easy how to do stuff in there. Just visit your local hobby shop and they can help you. Kalmbach has a books on how to scenery, wiring, painting, and more. I don't know whats's in your budget to go with HO or N scale. N scale is a little expensive than HO. Power packs can be use with Ho or N scale. They vary in prices from $40 and up depending what features you want. Also, there is DCC (digital command controls). It took me years to build up on my N scale layout. My current layout is 8' x 10' with a dunk under bridge at the door in my spare bedroom. These are some of few ideas I can offer. I hope this helps. Good luck!Ken

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>1) I plan to buy 1 or 2 4x8 sheets of plywood. Becasue of my
>back problems, and my 2 year old's hieght, I don't want it
>at normal hieght, as she would not be able to see it, and it
>would hurt my back standing for long periods while I work on
>it. So, would nailing the plywood to some 2x4's as a base be
>good enough, so it is more or less on the floor, but
>supported at the same time. Before you go out and buy up a forest of lumber and nail it all together...may I suggest that you track down a local model railroad hobby shop -- then pick up some books thee on building "benchwork" (that's what the support, table, etc. for a layout is collectively called). 2x4's can be overkill....you're not going to hold up a second story of a house. A model railroad weighs a lot less.There are also many books available on trackwork, be sure to PLAN your trackwork before just starting to throw it all onto the table. That's what I did and now have shitloads of extra track that I have NO use (or room) for. You may also be able to save some $$$ and locate such books in local libraries. But DO try and read up on the stuff before going out and spending a wallet-full of money. Model railroading is very expensive.
>2) How much are the power packs to run the trains, and how
>hard is it to get all that done? I am not much on electrical
>stuff, and I'm not out to have 16 trains running at once,
>just perhaps one of two on seperate tracks Depends on what you want the power pack to do. There are plain-janes that just suipply up to 12 volts DC to the tracks to basically run the train. Others have "pulse power" that gradually builds up the power so trains accelerate/decelerate more prototypically. There are power packs with sound. Then there's the world of DCC (Digital Command Control) which Ihaven't the foggiest about.
>3) Track - What is a good, but not very exspensive track
>system to use, and what is the best way to secure the track? In N scale, for example, as I am -- there is Atlas (very good for the price), Peco (excellent but expensive), Kato Unitrack (expensive but very good) and possibly others. Stay away from the Bachmann and Life-Like sectional track stuff, it's junk in any scale.
>This is a LONG TERM project, as I am starting from scratch,
>and plan to add a little here and there. The first thing
>obviously is the base, and the track work. I still have not
>decided which scale. I like the HO size, but given the small
>room I have for it, I could get more out of N scale, except
>for the scenery and other details are smaller, and from what
>I see in stores, less to choose from, not to mention I have
>loads of vehichles already in HO scale. I would suggest avoiding N scale if you have plenty of room, and a younger son. N scale is difficult for younger kids to keep on the tracks, or just get onto the tracks in the first place. HO scale will offer the widest variety of prototypical rolling stock, and details if you have the notion to get into doing your own custom work. Larger scales are great for the kids, but take up a lot more room for less operational capabilities, and don't quite have the wide variety of rolling stock as does HO.In any event, start reading some books on model railroading before jumping into it -- you will find it more rewarding if you have some idea of what you want to do -- and PLAN things. I've done it the non-planned, haphazard way almost all mylife and still have nothing much but I do have a LOAD of equipment (about 1/4 of which can fit on my layout at any time...) And I'm into N-scale!

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I highly suggest you use HO scale. I've done it for 15 years now. 1X4's should be sufficient for benchwork.. I'll echo comments already made and highly suggest you get books by Kalmbach. Atlas makes some nice books, also.

Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas
I Support MSTS IRC Chat. http://chat.dtimsts.vze.com
Member #3, Trainorders Refugee Association - http://evans.railfan.net/TORA.htm

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Chris, I would suggest going to the nearest train store and buying model railroader mag. they lots of tips and updates. I would choose doing HO scale if the track is that low. Plus its not a pain in the azz like this N scale stuff because it is so small. The track to use would be atlas (http://www.atlasrr.com). The engines to use are kato (http://www.katousa.com), atlas, athearn (http://athearn.com),& Walthers (http://walthers.com). Here is a list of the hobby shops in the New York area.
Batavia-RLR Railroad
Binghampton-Binghapmton model RR supply
Blauvelt-Hudson shores model train depot
Buffalo-Niagara hobby & train mart, K-Val hobbies, & LBC model trains.
Delhi-Dee's tiques and train shop
Farmingdale-Sunrise trail hobbies ltd
Geneva-Lake city hobby
Horseheads-Lantz train shop
Hurley-Hurley country store inc.
Kingston-J&J's hobbies inc.
Lake Ronkonkoma-Dollhouse Jct.
Latham-JP's trains
Miller place-Eastern hobbies inc.
Mineola, L.I.-Willis hobby shop
New york city-Stuyvesant trains & Hobbies
Norwood-Norwood Hobby shop
Poughkeepsie-Dutchess train & hobby center
Schenectady-Mohawk valley rr. co.
Smithtown-3 guy's hobbies
Syracuse(East)-Central hobby supply
Tappan-Old & Weary car shop, inc.
Warrensburg-victoria station
Wellsville-East Dyke DepotIf you need any addresses to these places please leave a message in my inbox.-MattATSF GP60M #104 works on the local in Flagstaff, AZ.

3 votes in the ATSF Contest. Please vote the photo page is in the SS forum.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 11:54 PM (EST)

I also recommend walthers.com and don't forget get about http://www.caboosehobbies.com located in good ole' Denver, ColoradoMatt do you live in Flagstaff? I do... I see the #104 all the time when I'm in that part of town for some reason or anotherJoel

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No i dont live in Flagstaff but i wish i did. and 104 is one of the last remaining gp60m's that ive been on.-MattATSF GP60M #104 works on the local in Flagstaff, AZ.

3 votes in the ATSF Contest. Please vote the photo page is in the SS forum.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-10-03 AT 09:48 PM (EST)

Welcome to the world of cellar dwellars. I have a layout in my basement that started with 2 4x8 sheets of plywood. Just added a 4x5 extension so it is now L shapped.The height of the layout is up to you. Remember the 2 yr old will grow up so keep that in mind. Mine is set to 36" and this allows me to reach over most of the layout.As far as track, I used atlas 100, but now wish I used the 83 (more prototypical.) My first powerpack was bought off of Ebay, a MRC 2400 I believe. I have just converted over to DCC and having a blast with it.I used cork roadbed glued to the plywood. Then used track nails to nail the track down. Some folks use foam on the plywood and then attach the roadbed and track. Others use the cookie cutter approach in their benchwork. If you are going to have hills and bridges and such, remember to keep the percent of grade at 2%. Makes it a lot easier for those engines to make it up.I am taking some shots of the layout and will upload them soon. Any questions, ask me and If I can help, I will be more than happy. Also check out a train show if one is in your area (www.gats.com is a good website for this.) Also don't forget about the NMRA site.
-- John Tackett --

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This should start a flame war! Look into large scale train, ie lgb aristocraft etc, may not be for what you want but they are big -- can't put a whole lot into a given area, but they are very durable and can be set up almost anywhere. you can go from simple starter sets ( cheap and easy to rivet counter stuff -- very very expensive. they charge you thousands to just look at it, almost any guage can get that way. also " me being an old foggie I can see it and when I drop it I can usually repair it without a microscope. I am like everybody else though; read - read - read, I have gone from everthing N to our (wife likes the gardening part) present garden railway, they all have their advantages and disadvantages. one thing though I will warn you about large scale is you eventually become an empire builder and get to "all to well" the wron end of a shovel

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Always good to hear that the finance officer has approved a layout. Like others have said, don't use 2x4's. Way over kill and I learned that the hard way. Makes the thing way a ton. One way to go is get 1/4 inch and then put a foam sheet on top. The foam for sides of houses, comes blue or pink and 4x8 as well. That way if you want a creek, you can cut in to it.Another way to go is only have the plywood where your track will be. This is a less heavy approach. You then fill in the other areas with foam, paper mache etc.As for track, use code 83 and go HO. While N will get you more in small space, the cost of the engines is nearly the same for HO. HO gives more details as well. You'll need to become familiar with electricity. If you have a layout that big and only one connection point for electricity, you'll have problems. The locos won't run consistently etc. My club, and my home layout have electricity to each section of flex track. That eliminates power loss through the joints and turnouts to a minimum.Bottom line, find some books or a club that you can pick peoples brains.

David Klemm
Illinos & St Louis Divisions
IC Version 1.0 uploaded

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Looks like a full day in store. DCC allows me to have multiple train running.
Racing a warbonnet. And yes those are Burma-Shave signs next to the road (better picture at the bottom.)
Waiting to board at the Manteca station.
Just a general picture looking into town.
Warbonnet coming at ya. The small details item in the foreground are what can bring a route to life.
Local freight and those Burma-Shave signs (I have an extra pack to the first person that sends me $1.00 for postage.)
Crossing the creek..
Fill'er up? The newest area of my layout

-- John Tackett --

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Well I have to approve the others, just a simple sheet of plywood is not the best way to go.Here's what I would do:1) Build a frame of the desired shape. You can build it in a way it follows the walls of your basement.2) Try to imagine a layout plan for your model rr. What sort of operations do you like. If you like switching, you might want to shorten the circular tracks or leave them away and concentrate on a yard and industries. Or you like to see trains running, try to make a circular or 'dogbone' style track as long as possible.3) Lay out the tracks and cut the right of way out plywood. You can use a singular bigger sheet where you have yards, stations or towns. Also make rights of way for roads etc.4) Lay down the tracks and do the wiring. Don't forget you may want to install lights, signals and other thingies. (different order than with MSTS here )5) Make a support structure for the scenery (for example with paper mache and gypsum)6) Do all the fine works at last.Rule of thumb is: Do test runs all the time, and then test it again, before you do the scenery. Nothing worse than building a beautiful landscape and then hacking it all up again, because you have short circuit somewhere...Cheers!SebastianFeel free to IM me on: sstyrnol@hotmail.com
My email is: sebastian.styrnol@gmx.de

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Reporting: Thesis done and complete!!!! Now: Very much time with a very special person in my life, X-Mas, LOTR, friends, cleaning up my flat, MSTS, MSTS, holidays and loads of money! (not sorted chronological...)
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Like myself,I have been collecting HO scale trains at an outrageous pace for the last 10 years. I have always had lots of stuff, but I knew when I turned 20 ( 12 years ago ) the purchase of a house would not be too far in the future.Well we bought a large bungalowWhy ??Cause the basements a BIG .... Long & NarrowProblem is it is also a completely finished basement !!There has been much talk of me getting started on " somthing " ... but it will probably take another couple years before the " First Spike " is driven.Now to swap out the tonnes of CP equipment I have accumulated over the years for CN equipment !!LaterTim Kent
96th_Malice
" Power for You "

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I have been in model railroading for thirty years It seems odd since i am only thirty. My dads been modeling since 1968 and i have had layouts ranging from a 12 by 30 foot garage empire To 2 by 6 switching layout that folded into a 2 by 3 box when not in use. heres my 2 cents1 read,read,read2 if possible go with nickel silver track, it is a little more expensive, but resists corrosion better than brass and is easier to keep clean3 don't rush it. it's a hobby not work, relax and enjoy yourself4 you may also find good affordable used equipment at swap meets/train shows. I've had decent luck depending on what i was looking for at the time.michael

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Ok now time for my 2 cents. If the layout was going to be off of the ground a few feet I'd say HO. But if you are looking at a ground level layout and a 2year old combination you may want to take a look at something like Lionel. True there are the new hi-rail locomotives with a lot of add on details and freight cars to match, but their traditional sized equipment has little to no pieces that can fall off and subsequently be ingested. The downside to this though is the equipment is expensive (even for traditional/O27) and there is not much opportunity for actual modelling. Although if you are one of these people who like to buy everything RTR that wouldn't be much of a problem.

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You need to go to a hobby shot and hire someone to guide you with it.
If you into the super-detail thing. And i warn you the model rr hobbie is very expensive a good power pack is like 30-40 dollars and track i would go for the flex track. And the as for locos ha well you better have some deep pockets.Stephen White

Oh and have a nice day.

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If you are going to buy seperate locos I highly recomend the following brands1. KATO2. Athern Genisis3. Proto 1000/20004. Stewart hobbies5. Athern6. Riviossi (did i spell that right)7. roundhouse8. AtlasAnd I recomend you avoid the following
1. Bachman2. Bachman Spectrum3. IHC4. Roco5. model power6. Train Lineand thats all i can think of so good luck to you and your layout.Stephen White

Oh and have a nice day.

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Even a basement that looks dry enough can be rough on track and such. I suggest that if the govenor is out of town, then move her bed and other stuff to the basement and set up the trains in her upper floor room where it will deffinately be dry. It's also cool and I'm sure the kids won't mind if you tunnel into their rooms from yours and back also.My family cooerced me into dismantling my trains back in 93. Thats how I got into computer trains cause they take up the space of a hard drive and you can tear your layout down for dinner and rebuild it in seconds after dinner.Good Luck!

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