Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record

LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-03 AT 12:05 PM (EST)

Transrapid Shanghai sets new world record with 501 km/h (311 mph) A world record for commercial Maglev systems was set up on November 12, 2003 in the framework of the commissioning phase of the Shanghai Transrapid as one five-section vehicle achieved the top speed of 501 km/h (311 mph) on the 30 km track between Long Yang Station and Pudong International Airport. Another vehicle passed at 430 km/h on the adjacent track. The Transrapid in Shanghai , with a design speed of over 500 km/h (310 mph) and a regular service speed of 430 km/h (267 mph), is the fastest railway system in commercial operation in the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Now, a fully loaded 5-car trainset breaking a world record... that is freakin' impressive!!

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RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, nadnerb1982, Nov-22-03, 03:33 PM, (1) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, patm41, Nov-22-03, 10:20 PM, (2) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, nadnerb1982, Nov-22-03, 11:10 PM, (3) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, Stooopid_person, Nov-22-03, 11:13 PM, (4) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, nadnerb1982, Nov-23-03, 02:09 AM, (5) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, tchouftchouf, Nov-23-03, 06:20 AM, (6) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, nadnerb1982, Nov-23-03, 03:43 PM, (7) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, Stooopid_person, Nov-24-03, 02:50 AM, (9) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, zachattack, Nov-23-03, 05:58 PM, (8) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, tchouftchouf, Nov-24-03, 12:10 PM, (10) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, Macster, Nov-24-03, 01:32 PM, (11) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, jtr1962, Nov-25-03, 06:27 AM, (14) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, Stooopid_person, Nov-25-03, 08:29 AM, (15) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, nadnerb1982, Nov-25-03, 06:45 PM, (16) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, jtr1962, Nov-25-03, 09:51 PM, (17) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, Stooopid_person, Nov-25-03, 11:48 PM, (18) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, jtr1962, Nov-26-03, 05:58 AM, (19) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, Stooopid_person, Nov-26-03, 06:07 AM, (20) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, jtr1962, Nov-26-03, 06:32 AM, (21) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, Interborough, Nov-26-03, 08:16 PM, (22) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, SouthwestChief, Nov-24-03, 02:09 PM, (12) RE: Shanghai Maglev breaks another world record, JonN, Nov-25-03, 01:10 AM, (13)

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Very impressive. That broke the records set on the test track in Germany. The Japanese maglev that is being tested now has been tested at 552km/h (345mph) and they are trying to build one of those between Tokyo and Osaka. The Japanese and German designs are vastly different, the German one still hasnt had a full test on a decent test track - 30 km in shanghai is less than half that of the Japanese track.
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The Casino Express Maglev tops that ...
Patm41

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On the 17th of November, the Japanese maglev reached 560km/h unmanned (it was manned for its 552km/h run).
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>Transrapid Shanghai sets new world record with 501 km/h (311
>mph) But the TGV which runs on rails still beat it! 325mph!

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Bah. The TGV had more than 30km (20 miles) of track to play with. Given the same long, straight track conditions, maglev kicks wheel on rails backside every time. I've got respect for TGV, but fastest isnt neccessarily the best.
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Hum,
The TGV record is 515.5 km/h.
In commercial service the TGV ride to 300 Km/h EVERY DAY on the Great Spead Lines, AND up to 220 Km/h EVERY DAY on classics lines...
The TGV roll everwhere there is a catenary, even more ride EVERY DAY whithout catenary, tracted bye a Diesel engine between Nantes and Les Sables d'Olonne!
JLC

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The Japanese have had trains operating over 200km/h EVERY DAY since 1964, with a better safety record than the TGV (TGV has been running since the 80's). The fastest, the series 500 shinkansen operates at 300km/h and has the world record for the Fastest scheduled average speed between two station stops ("Nozomi" between Hiroshima and Kokura, 261.8km/h 164mph) and Fastest scheduled average speed between starting and terminating stations ("Nozomi" between Shin-Osaka and Hakata, 242.5km/h 152mph). JR East recently tested their E2-1000 shinkansen at speeds of 360km/h (225mph) on their Niigata line with a view to increasing regular service speed to that level, which will make it the fastest regular wheel on rail commercial service in the world. Oh, and they run an average of 24 seconds late.

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>The Japanese have had trains operating over 200km/h EVERY
>DAY since 1964, with a better safety record than the TGV
>(TGV has been running since the 80's). Both TGV and Shinsaken does not have ay fatal crashes yet.

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I remember seeing the Maglev Track in Shanghai during my trip to China in May/June to get my little sister. Sadly, the train itself wasn't running due to SARS.

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I must admit that Japanese open the Great Speed way.
The TGV and ICE was made after Shinkanshen.
One of the difference is that TGV and ICE can go everywhere on the classic lines.
I have a question for our Japanese friends, is there an hight speed engineer on this forum?
JLC

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Maglev Advantage - No Contact - Less woren dow parts.. And can accelerate 0-300kph in between 4-5km.. vs. the ICE 3's 30km...

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-25-03 AT 06:39 AM (EST)

I see two possible uses for maglev in the future. One great use is for commuter service where the higher acceleration of the maglev will give an enormous time advantage. Speeds reached in between stops wouldn't necessarily be that high(probably less than 200 mph), but still faster than commuter trains go these days. The result will be greatly shortened trip times.The other use is for long-distance service in evacuated tubes. I don't see that a maglev running in open air offers that great a speed advantage over a high-speed train. High-speed trains will eventually reach commercial speeds of 400 km/hr or 250 mph. It is uneconomic to run maglev in the open air faster than about 300 mph due to energy consumption, and noise considerations would probably prevent doing so even if it weren't. Therefore, we're only talking about a 50 mph speed advantage, and it will be necessary to change vehicles to continue on conventional railway lines whereas a high-speed train can just switch over. This probably negates any travel time advantage maglevs possess over high-speed trains.However, unlike steel wheel on steel rail, which has an inherent limit of maybe 250 mph in everyday service, maglev has no such limit because it floats. If a maglev were to be run in a tube from which most of the air was pumped out, it could attain speeds far faster than even jetliners. This is where maglevs would really shine as a means of long-distance transportation. A worldwide network of maglev tubes running anywhere from 1000 to 5000 mph depending upon distance, and spanning oceans, would replace noisy, environmentally unfriendly airliners, and allow cities to reclaim the land currently used for airports. Those are the two main uses I envision for maglev. The Shanghai maglev is essentially a commuter service given the distances it runs over. Until we run maglevs in tubes, I don't believe they'll ever make economic sense for long distance use as the speed advantage isn't enough to justify construction of a whole new right-of-way.

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>However, unlike steel wheel on steel rail, which has an
>inherent limit of maybe 250 mph in everyday service, maglev
>has no such limit because it floats. If a maglev were to be
>run in a tube from which most of the air was pumped out, it
>could attain speeds far faster than even jetliners. If it the air was to be pumped out from tunnels, then you would save energy from the electromagnets! You don't even have tou use electromagnets for it, all you need to use is a normal magent or get some lodestones since you didn't need the magnets to change poles! As long as they are opposite poles, it would work since whne pumping the air out, it would create a vacuum and it would suck the train forward very fast! But the problem is that making machines that suck the air out of the tunnels would be a great cost...

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Sucking air out of a long tunnel would take just as much energy as wind resistance would.A maglev such as the MLX01 (the Japanese) reaches 550km/h in open air. It is streamlined to the absolute extreme. At that speed it is travelling at over half that of a commercial jet, and it uses about a quarter of the energy. Unlike a jet that energy can be generated in environmentally friendly ways. The air resistance can be beaten - in fact the MLX01 has air brakes - reinforced steel flaps that open to slow the train down.Plus, theoretically it COULD travel on normal lines. Unlike the German design, the Japanese maglev only floats above a certain speed. It uses wheels until it reaches "take off" velocity. The German one operates more like a monorail, the Japanese one sortof slots into a U shaped track (I know which one I'd prefer to be in during a power failure). So it could be done!There is some merit to the air - suction thing though. If you get the air moving, to push the trains - much like the wind powered subway in New York - you could reach the same high speeds. Better yet, you wouldnt even need a fan - with smart scheduling, if you always had 2 trains in the one tunnel, they would push/pull each other.
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>Sucking air out of a long tunnel would take
>just as much energy as wind resistance would.Yes, but that's a one shot deal. There is a vacuum in the tunnel permanently once the air is sucked out. You just need small pumps to compensate for the inevitable slow leaks. Naturally, there has to be an airlock when the vehicle enters or leaves a station. I think the studies on it show that the pumps will consume less than one-tenth the energy required to move at 300 mph in the open air. Other than the pumps, most of the rest of the energy is used to accelerate the vehicle to however many thousands of mph, and a lot of this kinetic energy can be recovered using regenerative dynamic braking. There will be some energy lost due to air friction because the tunnel is not a perfect vacuum, but overall the system will travel at two to ten times the speeds of jetliners while using less than 10% of the energy.Sure, maglevs running in the open air are streamlined to the extreme, but past about 300 to 350 mph energy consumption and especially noise are just too high to make going faster economically sensible. I'm sure that the MLX01 can reach even 600 mph in tests given enough distance to accelerate and power, but that speed would never be allowed in commercial service. Even running at 350 mph in open air represents a huge hazard if you hit a bird, for example, and the vehicle will need to be designed with that in mind.If a maglev that can switch to conventional lines can be designed, that would be a good thing. I'm not sure though how it could be powered on the conventional line. The landing wheels on the Japanese maglev are rather light and would need heavy traction motors to run on a regular railroad track since the linear maglev motor would be useless except on maglev track. Also, it would need a pantograph to pickup power from the catenary. I'm sure the bugs can be worked out. I just wonder if it would be economically viable.

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>Other
>than the pumps, most of the rest of the energy is used to
>accelerate the vehicle to however many thousands of mph,
>and a lot of this kinetic energy can be recovered
>using regenerative dynamic braking. You wouldn't need to use energy to accelarate it as I said above! Once you start pumping out out of the tunnel in front of you to create a vacuum, it would suck the train forwards!

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-26-03 AT 06:00 AM (EST)

>You wouldn't need to use energy to accelarate it as I said above!
>Once you start pumping out out of the tunnel in front of you to
>create a vacuum, it would suck the train forwards! No, you're misunderstanding the way this works. It is propelled forward like a regular maglev-by linear electric motor. It is suspended above the track same as a regular maglev. The purpose of taking the air out of the tunnel isn't to suck to train forward. It is to reduce air friction which in turn allows much higher speeds. In fact, it would be impossible to run a maglev at supersonic speeds in open air. The air friction would burn it up to say nothing of the sonic booms. However, in a tunnel with very little air it is quite feasible. Cost estimates for such a tube run at around $15 million per mile. For maybe $40 billion you can build a tube across the Atlantic Ocean. I first read about this here: http://www.readersdigest.co.uk/magazine/travel.htm but the concept is being used in many new maglev projects. In fact, the Swiss metro is going to be built with a series of such tubes. Although it will only run at 300 mph the nearly airless tubes should save a substantial amount of energy.I expect within the next 50 years we'll replace our air transport system entirely with a worldwide network of these tubes. It should eventually be possible to go from nearly any place on earth to any other place within a few hours.

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>No, you're misunderstanding the way this works. It is
>propelled forward like a regular maglev-by linear electric
>motor. It is suspended above the track same as a regular
>maglev. The purpose of taking the air out of the tunnel
>isn't to suck to train forward. But sucking it forward with magnets to keep the train floating would save more energy!

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>But sucking it forward with magnets to keep the train
>floating would save more energy! The air suction scheme works fine for low-speed vehicles like a subway. It just plain wouldn't work at all for maglev speeds, much less save energy. A huge amount of energy would be lost as all the air passes through a valve being sucked from the tunnel. Remember that with conventional open-air maglevs most of the energy is used to overcome air drag. This energy can never be recovered. However, in a vacuum tube most of the energy put in is used to accelerate the vehicle(i.e. increase its kinetic energy). This kinetic energy can be recovered when the vehicle starts decelerating, and reused to accelerate other vehicles in the system at the beginning of their journeys. Of course, you can't recover all of it(or we would have a perpetual motion machine ). However, you could probably recover 80 to 90% of it, making this one of the most economic forms of transport in terms of energy use as well as the fastest.

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See Beach Pneumatic Subway. The "air-suction scheme" that you refer to is known better as a pneumatic operation. In the mid-1800s, Alfred Eli Beach constructed a small pneumatic tunnel under Broadway from Warren Street one block to Murray Street. After a few years of operation, the technology was deemed insufficient for more extensive use, and the line was eventually shut down.

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311mph? Not bad, but how about 809mph through San Berdo. Man those BNSF freights really are fast
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-25-03 AT 01:12 AM (EST)

>311mph? Not bad, but how about 809mph through San Berdo. Man
>those BNSF freights really are fast DEFAULT ALERT!!
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