Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion)

LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-03 AT 01:16 PM (EST)

For the third time in recent months a member of this MSTS community has attacked us in open forums for enforcing our copyrights!What the heck is going on? Have we been invaded by 15 year old spoiled kids?Are we not allowed to protect our intellectual property?I do not notice the other Freeware shops being attacked like we are.
If you don't like us or are envious then just don't download our products. We really don't care! A continuation of these attacks may lead to us withdrawing from this community! Is that what you really want? No problem! If that's so, say so! I'm sure several of the other Freeware shops would be happy if we withdrew. Not realizing of course that they would be the next targets.Do these people think they have a "RIGHT" to steal Intellectual Property that supersedes the rights of the original authors? Are they so wonderful that we should allow them to do as they will and ignore our wishes?In the flight sim community use of some one else's models, textures, sounds and cockpits with out permission will get you banned in pretty short order. Why is not so in the Train Sim community?Our rules are very simple. Ask 1st, must be freeware, upload only to Train-Sim.com and give us credit for the original work. What, I ask, is so onerous about that?If we catch you we send an e-mail stating cease and desist and why don't you apply for a license! We also routinely ask Nels to spike the offending package until the dispute is resolved. That is what happened in the most recent incident. He has today e-mailed us and apologized. We have accepted the apology. It's time the MSTS community woke up and definitively dealt with the spoiled kidz and trolls!Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), cnw8717, Nov-17-03, 01:29 PM, (1) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-17-03, 03:38 PM, (7) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), SCL, Nov-17-03, 01:32 PM, (2) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), ACRHumanResources, Feb-25-04, 11:29 AM, (55) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), plainsman, Feb-25-04, 12:02 PM, (56) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), robertreedy, Nov-17-03, 02:54 PM, (3) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-17-03, 03:53 PM, (9) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Brad 110, Nov-18-03, 03:30 AM, (25) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-18-03, 01:42 PM, (27) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Brad 110, Nov-18-03, 05:34 PM, (29) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Poltergeist, Nov-19-03, 08:54 AM, (33) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), MikeF, Nov-21-03, 06:26 PM, (48) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), MikeF, Nov-21-03, 06:27 PM, (49) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-21-03, 10:03 PM, (51) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), oakpalms, Mar-04-04, 05:31 PM, (59) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Espeesd9, Nov-17-03, 03:19 PM, (4) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), SCL, Nov-17-03, 03:35 PM, (5) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-17-03, 03:35 PM, (6) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), sstyrnol, Nov-17-03, 03:49 PM, (8) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), SCL, Nov-17-03, 03:59 PM, (10) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Richard Haagsma, Nov-17-03, 04:46 PM, (11) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), sstyrnol, Nov-17-03, 05:30 PM, (12) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-17-03, 05:51 PM, (13) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Richard Haagsma, Nov-17-03, 06:35 PM, (17) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), CGW409, Nov-17-03, 06:04 PM, (14) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-17-03, 06:10 PM, (15) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), BNSF4723, Nov-17-03, 06:34 PM, (16) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Nhtrain2, Nov-17-03, 07:14 PM, (18) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), smp11512, Nov-18-03, 00:44 AM, (22) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), derekmorton, Nov-17-03, 08:31 PM, (19) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), dgauci, Nov-17-03, 11:02 PM, (20) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), heavymetal91, Nov-18-03, 00:03 AM, (21) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), xgsft, Nov-18-03, 01:14 AM, (23) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), John 136 6000 GO, Nov-18-03, 02:02 AM, (24) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Brad 110, Nov-18-03, 03:45 AM, (26) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), mdeming, Nov-18-03, 05:11 PM, (28) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-18-03, 05:52 PM, (30) Hello?!?, Robber Baron, Nov-18-03, 09:30 PM, (31) RE: Hello?!?, ace6879, Nov-19-03, 03:07 AM, (32) RE: Hello?!?, Poltergeist, Nov-19-03, 09:11 AM, (34) RE: Hello?!?, chucksc, Nov-19-03, 12:35 PM, (35) RE: Hello?!?, SCL, Nov-19-03, 02:44 PM, (36) Speaking of trolls..., Robber Baron, Nov-19-03, 09:06 PM, (38) RE: Speaking of trolls..., SCL, Nov-20-03, 03:29 AM, (44) RE: Speaking of trolls..., Robber Baron, Nov-21-03, 08:23 PM, (50) RE: Hello?!?, CGW409, Nov-19-03, 08:08 PM, (37) RE: Hello?!?, chucksc, Nov-19-03, 09:51 PM, (41) RE: Hello?!?, Robber Baron, Nov-19-03, 11:24 PM, (43) RE: Hello?!?, CSXALine, Mar-02-04, 02:36 PM, (58) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Brad 110, Nov-19-03, 09:11 PM, (39) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), chucksc, Nov-19-03, 09:40 PM, (40) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), mdeming, Nov-19-03, 10:28 PM, (42) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Brad 110, Nov-20-03, 06:21 AM, (45) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), jhilden, Nov-20-03, 05:01 PM, (46) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), sstyrnol, Nov-21-03, 07:01 AM, (47) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), dadbill, Nov-22-03, 03:23 AM, (52) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), HSSPOKEY, Feb-24-04, 11:30 PM, (53) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), bradhig, Feb-24-04, 11:49 PM, (54) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), BNSF4723, Feb-25-04, 06:57 PM, (57) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Hawk, Mar-04-04, 08:44 PM, (60) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), Hawk, Mar-05-04, 08:09 PM, (61) RE: Enforcement of Copyrights! (A discussion), dadbill, Mar-20-04, 10:36 PM, (62)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

Ok now I got a question I have been working on several repaints using your DASH-8 Model. I have a repaint license from you guys when I repainted a SP engine. Does this License allow to upload more repaints or do I need a new one. Sry if this sounds stupid bu I dont want to get yelled at.cnw8717

Brock Hansen President/CEO of Illinois Rail Link Inc, subsidiary of The Midwest Regional Railways Corp.
IRL Route is coming along nicely 70% done.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Ok now I got a question I have been working on several
>repaints using your DASH-8 Model. I have a repaint license
>from you guys when I repainted a SP engine. Does this
>License allow to upload more repaints or do I need a new
>one. Sry if this sounds stupid bu I dont want to get yelled
>at.
>
>cnw8717 WRite us offline and we can deal with it there....
Should be pretty routine!
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi ChuckI reckon there's a main ingredient missing with many members of this site (and probably lots of others) - and that is common decency. That's all it takes - just to be polite.It's a concept that doesn't seem to enter a lot of folks' heads, whether it's wanting to repaint someone else's model, wanting a particular model to be made, or advice on something - it just seems to be taken for granted by these characters that because it's free, then it's there for the taking. WRONG!You're totally right to stick to your guns Chuck. Just wondered how many pirate cases you get as a ratio to those that use the right channels, 'cos it would be a disaster to lose NALW Just because of a few morons!Cheers
Ken
SCL/CSX A-Line Project

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Amen, brother.And I have no problem with Chuck and the license agreement with NALW whatsoever, since it is a Notch 8 (in other words, top notch) product that they're providing to us, and for free no less.<rant> HEY TROLLS AND MALCONTENTS: GET A ****ING LIFE ALREADY! </rant>Stuart D. Guberman
Chief Operations Officer
Atlantic Coastal Railway
http://www.atlanticrail.com
P32 & Electric MU Engineer
MTA Metro North Railroad
http://www.mta.info/mnrPresident, The ACR (Virtual) LocoWorks

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Ken,
Spoken by a true gentleman that hasn't lost that ingredient! I still use and appreciate your fine work as well as NALW's.
A hearty thanks to all who make this so much better!!
Bob

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>For the third time in recent months a member of this MSTS
>community has attacked us in open forums for enforcing our
>copyrights!
>
>What the heck is going on? Have we been invaded by 15 year
>old spoiled kids?
>
>Are we not allowed to protect our intellectual property?
>
>I do not notice the other Freeware shops being attacked like
>we are.
>If you don't like us or are envious then just don't download
>our products. We really don't care! Chuck, you have a perfect right to enforce/protect your copyrights any way you wish. I would think that is very obvious. My question then, is why get so uppity and bent out of shape when someone says something negative about NALW or questions your methods. Just consider the source and ignore it. You have exceptional products and as is true in all aspects of life, when you're at the top you get more than your share of hassle and criticism. Shrug it off, consider the source and get on with whatever you were doing. btw, it'll help the blood-pressure too RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Nov-17-03 AT 03:56 PM (EST)

>Chuck, you have a perfect right to enforce/protect your
>copyrights any way you wish. I would think that is very
>obvious. My question then, is why get so uppity and bent out
>of shape when someone says something negative about NALW or
>questions your methods. Just consider the source and ignore
>it. You have exceptional products and as is true in all
>aspects of life, when you're at the top you get more than
>your share of hassle and criticism. Shrug it off, consider
>the source and get on with whatever you were doing. btw,
>it'll help the blood-pressure too
>
>RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com Thanks Robert....The problem is not criticism, We can handle that (Oh boy can I ), especially constructive criticism or personal taste (I.E. I don't like your amfleets because...) it's direct attacks (i.e. NALW sux) some of which are personal (i.e. and especially Chuck sux cause he/they said no to my tie-dyed repaint of the AEM7 labeled for CSX and my mommy said it was wonderful and I should upload it anyway and so do all three of my idiot friends whose attacks we coordinated in IRC 1st before posting on Train-Sim.com) that not only get my goat but the whole damn herd. IIRC most of these are usually directed at us after we say no to a request or inform someone (usually offline) that they are in violation of our copyright(s).... And usually our initial contact with them via e-mail is very polite.... It only gets ugly if we can't contact them via a phony e-mail address they've used or they react negatively to a denial or temporary denial (i.e. the F40s and Horizon repaint requests)....I've dealt successfully with immature kidz like this in the past...
Usually by administering a personal tongue lashing (err. ahh. direct personal guidance) or assigning a couple of million hours of P.T. or volunteering them to stay aboard while in port for an extra day or two or in a very few very recalcitrant cases a personal one on one guided tour of the far side of the dumpster on the pier. Unfortunately this medium does not lend itself to that sort of direct counseling. In any event their parents should have done or be doing that... I know I have a couple of "brother CPOs" on here and I wonder what your thoughts are?Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>I know I have a couple of "brother CPOs" on
>here and I wonder what your thoughts are? For what they are worth . . . 1. No one here can see your crow and rocker.2. Even if they could, the people you complain of didn't sign up for you.3. They also don't know salty form a bucket of reconstituted owl dung.It seems to me, with no more certain a guide then reading your posts these many months, that it rankles you that you do not get the deference to which you feel entitled. It is not an issue of obedience re the copyright issue, because, as you state, that is taken care of in an almost routine manner. You may end up having to put in a chit to vist your goat, because it seems to me that someone is pretty much always going to have gotten it.FWIW, you have my sympathy. It took me almost as long to make that transition (i.e. keeping my goat at home) as it did to finally be able to straighten out my coffee finger. For me, there was no greater humblizer then being judged by someone who would have to get a whole lot saltier to make sand crab apprentice.
Brad Meyer

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>>I know I have a couple of "brother CPOs" on
>>here and I wonder what your thoughts are?
>
>For what they are worth . . .
>
>1. No one here can see your crow and rocker.
>
>2. Even if they could, the people you complain of didn't
>sign up for you.
>
>3. They also don't know salty form a bucket of reconstituted
>owl dung.
>
>It seems to me, with no more certain a guide then reading
>your posts these many months, that it rankles you that you
>do not get the deference to which you feel entitled. It is
>not an issue of obedience re the copyright issue, because,
>as you state, that is taken care of in an almost routine
>manner. You may end up having to put in a chit to visit your
>goat, because it seems to me that someone is pretty much
>always going to have gotten it.
>
>FWIW, you have my sympathy. It took me almost as long to
>make that transition (i.e. keeping my goat at home) as it
>did to finally be able to straighten out my coffee finger.
>For me, there was no greater humblizer then being judged by
>someone who would have to get a whole lot saltier to make
>sand crab apprentice.
>
>
>Brad Meyer Actually Brad you are talking about the transition that I made in 1989... It was a lot easier when you could read "hash-marks and merit badges" and decide how much deference to give or get! I hear you about the being judged by the "sand crab apprentice"! You have to learn a different set of skills and earn/re-earn the respect of your new peers. The worst part for me was adjusting to managers who weren't leaders (I think that is what MBA school turns out I wonder how most of the MBA types would fare in USMC PLDC or USN LMET?)...
What I am talking about here is the frustration in not being able to sort these guys out with civilian style peer pressure. I was just observing how much easier it was when I was young and dumb and could do it military style.... I was just curious if any of the rest of you had the same frustration at times.... You know you see the young lads stepping off the plank and you want to grab them by the scruff of the neck and shake some sense into them.... Before they really hurt themselves.P.S. I never did straighten out my coffee finger! But, I had to learn to drink decaf! LOL!
And no I don't worry about not wearing my Crow or Bars any more...
I've learned how to impress people in person with out them....
It's called competence and leadership....Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Actually Brad you are talking about the transition that I
>made in 1989... In '89 I had been out for 11 years and had left IBM after 10 years there. My real transition didn't start until then.>The
>worst part for me was adjusting to managers who weren't
>leaders (I think that is what MBA school turns out During the time I worked for the KOG (AKA Adm Rickover) he would go off seni-regularly about leadership vs management. Many months later I came to the conclusion that what he meant (and what I believe) is that one manages process, but leads people. Attempts to manage people (as opposed to the processes they are engaged in) seem pretty hopeless to me.>What I am talking about here is the frustration in not being
>able to sort these guys out with civilian style peer
>pressure. I think I understand. My point was that the frustration is internal. You choose to be frustrated, just like one chooses to be hacked off, happy, sad, or any other emotional state. >You know you see the young lads
>stepping off the plank and you want to grab them by the
>scruff of the neck and shake some sense into them.... Before
>they really hurt themselves. Interesting thing about that. As a kid I was a hot runner in school, and pretty much hung out with other hot runners. I went into the Navy as an EM striker and spent the first three years in rate and as a second class diver. The rest of the time was in Nuke Power. I had little or no contact with (let us say) the intellectually challenged until I was damn near forty. My experience was that the kid stepping off the plank was a cut above and there is a significant difference between dealing with someone bright who has not got his head screwed on straight and someone who just cannot learn.>P.S. I never did straighten out my coffee finger! But, I had
>to learn to drink decaf! LOL! My wife has to drink decaf. French roast decaf brewed up storng is not a bad substitute for coffee.
Brad Meyer

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

You know you see the young lads
>stepping off the plank and you want to grab them by the
>scruff of the neck and shake some sense into them.... Before
>they really hurt themselves.
Sometimes it not the kid, some adult do amazailgy (Don't have my spell checker on this computer), stupid things that are a noggin stractcher too. I won't share any experience I have in that field. However I do agree with y ou that copyrights rules and regulation must be enforced. In the United States, and in Japan (Man I just love Japan!) Once a piece of work is created, IE, MSTS models, lyrics to music, or a new program. It is copyrigted. This whole mess you have to go through with the copyright bearu is just a way to get proof that it is copyrighted. My two cent.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
"The voices, the voices, I hear them, they're with me, so I follow I follow..." ~Eminem's "Guilty Conscious"

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hey you old fellow 'goat-locker'...FWIW, I had a tough time transitioning to this 'civy' land some 17 years ago.Was so used to being held responsible for anything I saw, and butting in when I saw stuff going on that wasn't up to snuff (in the canoe club, it's expected). Started getting in trouble with other departments in the civilian world for a while. Now they all know I'm a krusty old SOB and they know I don't put up with a lot of it.But yeah, it's kind of hard to deal with some sand crabs Union rules, mandatory job titles ("that *really* isn't his job to do *that*"). Can't force others to wipe up their own coffee spills sometimes. But lead by example, take the moral high ground, and don't let 'em get you down too much.P.S. If you want, I could send you a 'sympathy chit' to go see the chaplin (i.e. sometimes, you just have to suck it up)

Mike F

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>
>P.S. If you want, I could send you a 'sympathy chit' to go
>see the chaplin (i.e. sometimes, you just have to suck it
>up) After all, that *IS* why the chief's run the Navy Mike F

Mike F

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>>
>>P.S. If you want, I could send you a 'sympathy chit' to go
>>see the chaplin (i.e. sometimes, you just have to suck it
>>up)
>
>After all, that *IS* why the chief's run the Navy
>
>Mike FI remember being told at my initiation that it was "our" Navy and we were issued Officers as a handicap! (also to keep running it from becoming too easy)
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Chuck:I am glad to see all the Navy chat on the Train-sim forum. You guys need to calm down if someone is in need of seeing a Chaplain (notice the correct spelling). I've been a Train-sim user for three years and I certainly appreciate all the work you guys have done in providing free add-ons. I certainly agree that people should you courtesy:
1. Ask and it will be given unto you.
2. In all things, give thanks.Bob Edwards, U.S. Navy Chaplain Retired

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I have been sitting in the shadows around here since 2001. I have come out twice I think in the last two years and the most recent time was before my original screen name disappeared.Anyway I agree with Chuck about respecting the copyrights of NALW, however I think it is rather stupid to threaten to pick up "your toys" and leave. How many others have done just that? Svante and Toland were two of the first. Svante comes back but Toland is gone. I can name several other gifted modelers that have left because they got mad as well. But we are not discussing this.The fact is folks seem to think because some item was built/made/designed they have the authority to do whatever they want. Well that is simply not the case. People now days take everything for granted,if you do not bow down to their desires, you are not playing fair. And sometimes not playing fair lands you in jail or court. When I was growing up it was the strong who survived, now it is who has the most lawyers. Chuck does not need to bow down and give them the right to use the models as they see fit, they belong to NALW and the modeler who built them.One other item that follows this as well, there has been alot of hollering over some files that some one is using in a G&MO route. How is it those files/intellectual property are different from the ones Chuck and NALW have made? Chuck and NALW have a copyright on their designs and models and so does the guy who originally did the G&MO route.Chris

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi ChrisI think we agree on most points - except I don't think it's stupid of Chuck to threaten to discontinue NALW's massive input into this hobby. He's stated soooooo many times the simple rules and procedures. Nothing fancy, just common sense and politeness is all he's asking. I think many of us here would react the same way if someone was being plain pig ignorant - we'd just walk off in disgust.Glad you've come out of the shadows anyway! Great to meet you Cheers
Ken
SCL/CSX A-Line Project

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Thanks Guys for your support...Chris, we are not threatening to pack up our toys and leave. We are not KLW. I was observing, and apparently phrasing it rather poorly, that if this continues at some point it becomes too much of a hassle to bother with the Train-Sim.Com community. Others have reached a similar decision. I remind you of Rich Garber (off to avsim.com and forums that are much more tightly regulated and where he is treated with at least a modicum of respect), Train-Artisan who have almost completely withdrawn from Freeware.... Kevin A. who does his support via 3DT's forums now.... Although he stays on here some just to confound the idiots.... and the list goes on....This situation will only get worse unless the community as a whole steps in and "spanks" the kids and trolls when they get out of hand.I know I am not the most diplomatic guy going. But you can chalk that up to being a retired Navy Mustang Officer (Former CPO and CWO) who learned his diplomacy skills where diplomacy gets people killed.... However, I try to be fair. After all I hate all idiots/trolls/kidz (not kids but rude kidz - and you know who you are) regardless of race, creed or sexual orientation! The constant pounding on this forum and in private e-mails takes its toll. So those of you who do not belong to the idiot/troll/kidz category will have to excuse an old man's irascibility from time to time! I'm only glad that the creative guys in NALW don't have to put up with it and I'm only too happy to run interference for them. Again my goal is to start a reasonable discussion on how we as a community can deal with the very few who, IMO, are deliberately trying to ruin it for all of us!What do the rest of you think? Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Chuck,one suggestion, if it seems unsuitable for you to distribute your models through train-sim.com, you could always control the distribution like Gaetan Belanger did, when he did his first models. Let people email you and supply passwords. Okay, it is a little bit more work, but you control who's getting the models... And you know, who could be able to make unproper distribution...Just my 2€... Anyway, it is a shame... And we honest guys suffer from it...Cheers!SebastianFeel free to IM me on: sstyrnol@hotmail.com
My email is: sebastian.styrnol@gmx.de

Ain't life great????

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi ChuckGod knows how you can control the actions of people who are too thick to follow simple procedures, and of course there's the ones who don't probably even realise they are doing something wrong. It seems to me, and I reckon this may be too much of a burden to the hosts of Train-sim.com, that (unless the work is totally original) every item that is uploaded to this site needs to have a copy attached of the email granting permission from the original author(s). I know this would be a right royal pain, and in some cases impossible to achieve because maybe the author can't be found, but this seems the only way you can weed the pirated stuff out. No letter of permission, no entry into the library. And everyone keeps a sharp eye open ready to name and shame any who would counterfeit a letter granting permission! Cheers
Ken
SCL/CSX A-Line Project

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Maybe you should just deny all requests for repainting. NALW releases a product and that's it, no more fiddling around by other people. You offer something for free and if that third rivet from the right ain't spot on or someone wants another livery well let people ask you to change it. Just keep the leash short. Regards,
Richard.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Good point...Cheers!SebastianFeel free to IM me on: sstyrnol@hotmail.com
My email is: sebastian.styrnol@gmx.de

Ain't life great????

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Maybe you should just deny all requests for repainting. NALW
>releases a product and that's it, no more fiddling around by
>other people. You offer something for free and if that third
>rivet from the right ain't spot on or someone wants another
>livery well let people ask you to change it. Just keep the
>leash short.
>
>Regards,
>Richard. Richard that's a very attractive option.However, the problem we have with it, and it may come to it if the Bozo Brigade doesn't soon get its wings clipped, is that NALW originated sub-contracting, assembling and integrating projects from multiple modelers. As such we have always prided ourselves on co-operating with the repainting community and have in fact gotten many of them to participate in joint releases with us. Just think of CLW/GG1s & NH PAs, TA/NH-Stream-liners, ChrisTrains/NH EP5, TKW & CSX A-line/GE Megapak, Mad Mike/ALP46 & EP2, Hoboken-Terminal & Michael Forster/U34ch, The entire team that worked on the NKP Berkshire project, Rob Roeterdink/Septa & MARC cars, Tom Cain and Tolaris/Improved Acela Express and HHP8s and others too numerous to mention. If we lock down the projects then we have a serious problem with extended content in our packages... We sure would hate to have to do this!Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Well, absolutely true. But the people you mentioned are trusted 'contractors' Let people proof themselves, harsh maybe but alas reality. Otherwise before you know it you'll find your stuff in China.
That's proverbial Best regards,
Richard.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Chris<and so does the guy who originally did the G&MO route.>
That would be Paul Fowler and we lost a real asset to the MSTS community when he left,not just here but he pulled everything he's done off line.
Paul's the kind of guy who'd bend over backwards to help,I'd asked him if he could reskin his Wabash GP for the old Soo Line maroon and gold,I was told that he was busy and it could be quite awhile before he could get to it.
I said that was fine,no prob, 24 hours later Paul e mailed me saying he changed his mind and 48 hours after that the Geep was in my email box and up on SLW's site,that's just the kind of guy he is.Chuck
You are a moron magnet for the simple fact that you DO enforce your copyright,I go out of my way to cover myself on reskins I do,I currently have an EJ&E caboose that I may need to reskin because I used a Ken Martello(sp?)skin of Mark Toland's steel rear cupola hack,apparently Ken is no longer online or incommunicado but since he can't be reached, oh well I start again.
Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>
>Chuck
>You are a moron magnet for the simple fact that you DO
>enforce your copyright,Well that's the nicest thing I've been called on here in a while!
LOL!
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I personally think just go payware and anybody whos got a problem with that can go screw a donkey. If people want NALW stuff that badly, I'm sure they can dish out whatever its gonna cost. If people are paying for stuff, I doubt they'll want to abuse it, after why do that after paying?~The only way to ship~

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Chuck, I agree with you on all terms. I think you should keeping going on all fronts, In your work for MSTS, and for the copyrights.-NHtrain

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-03 AT 00:45 AM (EST)

>I personally think just go payware and anybody whos got a
>problem with that can go screw a donkey. If people want NALW
>stuff that badly, I'm sure they can dish out whatever its
>gonna cost. If people are paying for stuff, I doubt they'll
>want to abuse it, after why do that after paying? Alot of good going Payware would do , look what people do with MLTs Units and 3Dtrainstuff's units , it has not stopped them from being uploaded to the File Library WITH shape files , cab and sound included. I have kind of been quiet so far but Chuck and the rest of the team at NALW , you have my support even if it does not mean that much
Shane Palus
BNSF Railfan

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Chuck,Copyright is yours and yours to say what happens to it.
I don't do content, just EngMod so it is different.I suppose the problem here is that it is all free.
If you were charging money for the right to use your stuff, the skidz may not get involved.
I find in my dealings with skidz that they think they have a right to everything, whereas you and I worked for any right we have.Just the changing times maybe.Stick to your guns mate, its YOUR stuff.
If anybody gets upset, thats their problem.Derek

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Ditto to the majority of the other comments. The kidz of today think they are all entitled to everything. Few seem to understand even the simplest concepts of copyright, all rights reserved.Chuck you and your group do wonderful work and should continue. Go Navy.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Chuck,
I think you have every right to enforce your copyrights. I do have an idea though suppose Nel's changes upload page to have an email link to the various designers NALW, MLT....etc to ask for permission to upload...Before Nel's posts it in the file library that way if they don't ask they can't upload. i don't know if this can be done, but what do you all think?Joel

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

"It's time the MSTS community woke up and definitively dealt with the spoiled kidz and trolls!"My thoughts exactly Chuck!

Mike Suitts

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hi Chuck,I've disagreed with many of the things you've written, especially your political views. However, on this topic, I'm in agreement with you.There is a simple moral situation here, which is quite clear - the creators are the owners and can do whatever they wish. Whether the creators/owners wish to release their creations totally without restriction or charge (freeware/public domain) or sell them with tight restrictions on use or redistribution, or anywhere in between, is entirely their decision, and the rest of us have to accept those conditions.I doubt very much if this is a generational issue - the young have always been the source of dismay, anoyance, disgust, etc. from the older generations - and this has been recorded for about as long as human affairs have been recorded. Where the young may, as a group, be slightly more inclinded to offend is through ignorance - and will respond when counselled in a suitable manner (which is likely to be gentle to start with). Those who persist in thinking they can do whatever they like with whatever they get from wherever they get it will likely persist thay way for life - how many of these folks (whatever their age may be now) have seen their parents bring pencils or pens home from work, or ignore parking restrictions that they find inconvenient? So it goes, from generation to generation, with a few breaking the pattern.Enough rambling. I entirely agree that you have every right to place whatever restrictions you wish on the models you release.John

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>There is a simple moral situation here, which is quite clear . . .This assumes that everyone concerned shares your moral standards. IMO an assumptiion as dangerous as it is wrong headed. It is because of the fallacy of that assumption that we have copyright laws (laws in general for that matter).What we have here is a simple legal situation, with (if all else fails) a legal remedy.Brad Meyer

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>What we have here is a simple legal situation, with (if all
>else fails) a legal remedy.
While its true that there may be a legal remedy to this issue, the costs to nalw would be very expensive, and while they would more than likely win, its highly doubtful that they would be awarded any damages since they have not lost any money, so whats the point? From what I have read, its alway something like "NALW is so unfair!" Bottom line is its their product to do with as they please. The rules are very well stated, and the fairness of the rules is not the issue, nor is NALW, Chuck or anyone else involved with NALW's attitude the issue. The issue is plain and simple. If you do not follow their rules, NALW WILL respond. Just becaue a product is given away in no way means you are free to do with it as you please. So to all the ones who cry because NALW and Chuck are jerks because I cant upload my reskin, You knew that before you got the product, it has been demonstrated that they will respond, deal with it and grow up. We are talking about a computer game/simulation here, and a free product for it. In the grand scheme of things I do not think it is all that important.

Mike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Amen! Mike, Amen!Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

...So to all the ones who cry because NALW and Chuck are jerks because I cant upload my reskin...Uhhh hello? So follow their rules or don't upload it! Duh! But there's nothing stopping you from re-skinning a model to your own liking in the privacy of your own computer! I usually spray "dirt" all over the ones I really like. What's the big deal about uploading a reskin, other than maybe getting your ego stroked a little (I know some of you aren't doing it for that reason, but some of you are)? Besides I liked the original protocol we all followed way back when...when you uploaded only the .ace files for a particular model. That way you were allowing the creator to maintain control over his creation.I should also point out that I think that existing copyright laws are bunk (screw you Disney!) and need to be drastically reworked, especially with the new reality of one-off exact digital copies. Mike also makes a good point that copyright is only enforceable in practical terms when loss is incurred, and even then it is problematic, what with the global nature of the Internet and the fact that many of us live in jurisdictions that don't believe that copyright violation is the great evil that some in the US would have us believe it is (The MPAA wants to throw people in jail for uploading movies for crying out loud! Sorry but our jails are already full of murderers, pimps and drug dealers and there are still more out there).

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Um.........Anyone notice the "trolls" are AWFUL quiet!! Nuff' said!!

Kelley D. Ellison
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer

Dekosoft Lighting engineer

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Um.........
>
>Anyone notice the "trolls" are AWFUL quiet!!
>
>Nuff' said!! LOL, I have not noticed that! But knowing trolls they might come up with a weak and pathetic attempt at an attack.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
"The voices, the voices, I hear them, they're with me, so I follow I follow..." ~Eminem's "Guilty Conscious"

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Um.........
>
>Anyone notice the "trolls" are AWFUL quiet!!
>
>Nuff' said!! Actually Kelley look at post 31.....He clearly states he does not believe in copyrights!
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Let's see..... Robber Baron? Hmmmmmmmm..... Interesting choice of name as well.Cheers
Ken
SCL/CSX A-Line Project

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Chuck, I'm actually on your side. Go back and re-read what I said carefully.SCL(Ken) My "handle" is based entirely on my love for this hobby and is meant to invoke images of some of the great railroad builders of old who were true "robber barons" and love 'em or hate 'em, railroading wouldn't be where it is today without 'em! It is not meant to convey any desire on my part to rip off some silly little train sim model. I've paid for all my payware and I haven't uploaded or shared one bit of freeware contrary to the wishes of its creators.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>SCL(Ken) My "handle" is based entirely on my love for this
>hobby and is meant to invoke images of some of the great
>railroad builders of old who were true "robber barons" and
>love 'em or hate 'em, railroading wouldn't be where it is
>today without 'em! It is not meant to convey any desire on
>my part to rip off some silly little train sim model. I've
>paid for all my payware and I haven't uploaded or
>shared one bit of freeware contrary to the wishes of its
>creators. I apologise RB - no slur intended.This is obviously a very prickly subject, and assumptions are often made too quickly. I agree with your sentiments regarding payware, and MSTS is indeed a game at the end of the day. Unfortunately there are some who probably regard the stealing of software, presumably because product XXXX is a game, as being alright. How wrong they are!Again, sorry for any misinterpretation of your "handle".Regards
Ken
SCL/CSX A-Line Project

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hey no worries. I know this is a touchy subject with a lot of people so one should expect to get shot at whenever they wade into a discussion about the ins and outs of copyrights, no matter what their position is.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Chuck
I think more that RB was pointing out that some of the copyright laws could use some tweaking in the case of the mouse god lobbying to alter the copyright laws effectivly preventing anything by Disney from ever passing into the public domain which oddly enough a good chunk of Ol Walt's early stuff was gleaned from or in the cases where films or other works that have fallen into public domain can be recopyrighted(if that's a word)such as It's a Wonderful Life,that film used to get dragged out and played to death for Christmas,Thanksgiving,Easter,Ground Hogs Day et all because it was in the public domain and TV stations could air it without problem(mind you the rest of this a bit cloudy as it's been a bit since I read the article)but some individual or group saw marketing potential in the IAWL franchise and got it copywritten again and they made a few bucks selling IAWL related merchadise in Target stores but the big TV market dried up because it was no longer royalty free.
I've always thought that to be a problem with copyright law,that one can copyright something that you had absolutely no hand in at any stage of the creative process.
Baron's other point I took more as that the MPAA is seriously over reacting on the penalties they're demanding,our prison space should be reserved for those who are true menaces to society,this is not to say that pirating CD's & DVD's should go unpunished,if you're running a big boot leg ring,hard time for you,if you upload a film to the internet and it's proven you intended to do so(though I'd be hard pressed to figure out how one "accidently" uploads a copy of The Matrix online)fine them,running a website with a film library? then you get to live in a cardboard box because every red cent goes to pay the fine.Gary S

42 year old future curmudgen(Hey you kids get offa my lawn!!)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Sorry RB I misunderstood your point. Thanks for pointing that out to me Gary.
As far as the MPAA is concerned they have a real problem or three as I see it... 1.) They can let the piracy continue unchecked and eventually flush themselves down the toilet...
2.) Spend lots of money chasing down Grokster or the latest clone and have a protracted legal battle like the did with Napster. Remember the big time pirates are at least loosely organized and appear to have deep pockets.... They can tie you up in court for a long time or just fade into the "ether" as it were...
3.) Find a few innocent souls or small time thieves as it were and hammer them. The theory being that every one else will see them chase the Single Mom down for what her twit kid did and think "Gee if they'll go that far my innocent sharing of 5 or 6 songs could cost me my house so I better knock it off!" Believe it or not that works... And it's lots cheaper than suing Grokster!
None of these solutions are pretty or popular....But if it's the MPAA taking Granny's house away and not Shania Twain or Tom Jones then no real harm accrues to the artists and there is no impact on their sales and they still get to suppress the pirates! You better believe that the MPAA is not doing a darn thing the majority of the artists haven't authorized them to do BTW!Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I guess there are people out there who like to watch movies in jittery little boxes made from some guy smuggling a camcorder into the theatre. Well I'm not one of them...at least not if the movie is decent. The MPAA needs to take a chill pill. I'd still rather see a decent movie in a theatre any day, and if it's exceptional, I'll watch it again, and if it's REALLY exceptional, I'll buy the DVD when it comes out. Sure I've DL'd a few movies, but most of them I've paid to see at one time or another and the only reason I downloaded them at all was it was something of a curiousity to be able to do so or because the DVD wasn't readily available yet. By far my prefered method for aquiring movies for home viewing is going to the store and plunking down $20 and walking out with the DVD...that way you know exactly what you're getting (one time I DL'd what I thought was the latest Bond flick and it turned out to be a pretty raunchy porno). So all the MPAA has to do is turn out a decent quality movie and people will continue to patronize theatres and DVD stores. Churn out crap and we'll all find something else to do (like train-sim )

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Exactly,
Jason Webb
Http://www.scl-aline.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Nov-19-03 AT 09:13 PM (EST)

>While its true that there may be a legal remedy to this
>issue, the costs to nalw would be very expensive . . .Not known and probably not true. Besides, there is a principle (supposedly) here. Just what is that principle worth to NALW?> . . . and while
>they would more than likely win, its highly doubtful that
>they would be awarded any damages since they have not lost
>any money, so whats the point? See above. Either thier stuff is worth protecting or it isn't.
Brad Meyer

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>>While its true that there may be a legal remedy to this
>>issue, the costs to nalw would be very expensive . . .
>
>Not known and probably not true. Besides, there is a
>principle (supposedly) here. Just what is that principle
>worth to NALW?
>Actually last time I asked only about $500 to initiate a copyright suit in the EU with a US corresponding attorney doing the paperwork with his corresponding attorney there... Remember I live in the Washington DC metro area "Ambulance Chaser Central".... Lot's of hungry lawyers here....
>> . . . and while
>>they would more than likely win, its highly doubtful that
>>they would be awarded any damages since they have not lost
>>any money, so whats the point?
>
>See above. Either their stuff is worth protecting or it
>isn't.
>It is and We've gone so far on one occasion, I forget whether it was Spain or Italy, to start the cycle.... Only cost us the $100 retainer....China is lots more expensive since they didn't recognize international copyright laws.... However the key there is to attack the site doing the distribution and you can even get the ISP over there "silenced" for egregious violations....
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Nov-19-03 AT 10:30 PM (EST)

The point is is that Lawyers are expensive and generally if there is no monitary loss, no monies are awarded. Is it worth a lawsuit over this? Thats a question only NALW can answer. It seems to me that NALW has done a good job of protecting its stuff already. And while it may cost only $500 to start, if you were suing more than 1 person it would add up quickly. Usually in these types of cases its the lawyers who really win. I agree that one has the right to defend thier creative material, having been in the music biz since I was young, I have come to the opinion that most lawyers are not to be trusted. Personally I cannot see spending a minimum of $500 to defend what I have givin away. As long as there are simulators there will be this problem. Human nature is to steal, thats why we have locks on doors. The only real solution to this problem is a change in the nature of the ones who want to steal. Until humanity is perfect some asshole will try and rip you off. I admire NALW and the way they have handled this. If there was an easy solution to the basic question of how do we keep people from stealing, most governments, and corporations would pay a fortune to obtain such a solution. For example look at the measures Microsoft goes to to prevent software piracy with limited results. Its very easy to obtain pirated software, just as it is very easy to obtain illegal drugs. If there is a market someone will be willing to supply it. Perhaps there is a way to encode the ace files, so copies could only be made with the use of a key. In any business one must ask will the benifits outweigh the costs. IN this case only Chuck and company can answer it.
Mike

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>Personally I cannot see
>spending a minimum of $500 to defend what I have givin away. I think this cuts to what Lawyer Lincoln used to call "the naked merits of the issue". It would seem, from Chuck's posts in this thread, that NAWL takes a different view then you do as to the spending of money to protect their posessions. It might even be that _because_ they are providing something for free, the principle involed is more important to them then it might be to someone doing it as a business and looking more closely at profit and loss on a balance sheet then principle.>As long as there are simulators there will be this problem.If so, then defending their stuff is not likely to make the problem any worse.

>Human nature is to steal, thats why we have locks on doors. I disagree. People (some people at least) are trained and contioned to steal. IMO it is not human nature. As to locks, we had a sayings in the Navy that locks only kept the honest people honest, it did nothing to stop the dedicated thief.>The only real solution to this problem . . .Which problem? NALW seems to have solved the specific problem that spawned this thread. The packages in question have been pulled from the d/l library. If you mean the problem of thievery in general, that isn't really NAWL's business anyway. They don't seem to me to be out to change the world, only to protect their stuff. They seem to being doing a pretty fair job of doing so.>Until humanity is
>perfect some asshole will try and rip you off. And victims will have the choice of fighting back laying back. >I admire NALW
>and the way they have handled this. If there was an easy
>solution to the basic question of how do we keep people from
>stealing, most governments, and corporations would pay a
>fortune to obtain such a solution. No they wouldn't. The easy way is to make nothing worth stealing -- essentially nothing at all. What I think you mean to say is that if there was a way to keep people from stealing without hurting the bottom line then govts and corporations . . . .>For example look at the
>measures Microsoft goes to to prevent software piracy with
>limited results. Because any further effort would impinge on the bottom line. If stopping piracy of MS product was more important then the bottom line, they could simply not make MS product, but we both know that isn't the case. MS isn't outraged that their product gets pirated, they are outraged by the loss of revenue because their products get pirated.
Brad Meyer

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I have read all of the current posts in this topic and thought I would add my 2 cents. Even though our stance on copyrights is known to most by now, do not forget the other reason why we are diligent in the policing of are products, especially 3rd part modifications, is – quality. As Chuck stated previously, we authorize a 3rd party release after reviewing the re-skin, a model using our cab, or any other derivative of our product, to ensure it meets our standards. This is to protect ourselves and ensure anything with our name on it, meets a certain standard. J. Hildenbrand------NALW------

---Juice for You---

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I hope this get's any better some day...Cheers!SebastianFeel free to IM me on: sstyrnol@hotmail.com
My email is: sebastian.styrnol@gmx.de

Ain't life great????

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I've taken a hiatus from releasing my latest projects due to this very reason. I feel in the past I've been lenient by not asking my permission, as long as you give me credit, but there have been cases when I don't even get that.
It's a shame people can't get it right after all this time!

db

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I have always abided by copyright laws to the best of my ability.I have issues with just one aspect. This concerns the duration
of copyright. I think life plus 80 is not a reasonable period. I don't
understand why the music and publishing industry deserves life plus 80 when patent holders only get I think 20 years. I also had issues when trying to get permission to make copies of out of print items. Publishers would not respond or offer terms that I considered excessive for a non-profit organization. I responded to that by not using that music. One of those tunes was Swanee River as performed by
Tommy Dorsey & His Orchestra copyright 1942. I had access to an arrangement of 3 trumpets, 2 trombones, 4 saxes. Our group was
4 trumpets, 4 trombones, 5 saxes. Embassy wanted $80.00 to make
the copies of the arrangement, have the missing parts made by
a paid arranger and limited our possesion of the arrangement
to 1 year. I can buy a Warner Brothers Arrangement for $50.00
and keep it for life and I have performance licenseing for non-profit use. I told Embassy that their terms were unacceptable and did not
make use of any of their arrangements. The absurdity of this is
that Embassy took their arrangement out of print in the 1940's thus
admitting that this particular arrangement has no comercial viability.
Two points. Copyright can restrict distribution of music if the publisher or holder offers unreasonable terms. Two, the long time period on copyright prolongs a monopoly far longer than I think is justified. In either case the producers of intellectual property deserve to be compensated for a period of time I happen to believe it should be 40 years. Finally like I said, I respect copyrights but I can understand fully why some people get irritated with them. The
issue is really being inflamed by the internet as more people become
aware of copyrights and the restrictions imposed by them. Finally, if
you don't like the terms that a copyright holder imposes you have
the option of not using their work. If enough people don't purchase
from that copyright holder they might offer better terms. Incidently
the new copyright law has placed everything under copyright after
1928.From my dealings with music copyrights I don't understand why anybody
is giving freeware distributors any greif. Their terms are far more
fair and reasonable than what I run into with music publishers.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Is it okay if I repaint a PCC or the city of new orleans trainset?

ridin the PCC Streetcars. Biggest mistakes in St. Louis history, getting rid of the streetcars and closing union station to trains.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

NO, no... why was this dragged up again? What is with the noobs looking at multiple month old threads and dragging them up?~The only way to ship~

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Well shucks, Matt-at least they're reading something. Unfortunately-I don't think they quite get the drift.
I'm one of those folks that "pulled up my pants and went home".
Why?
It wasn't the concern of stealing my work, it was the lack of simple courtesy.
As a route builder (sort of) and a 3D modeler (somewhat), I know how easy it is to add stuff to your route, and be to lazy to keep track of who's stuff you're using. I'm also familiar with the ordeal of having to amend that negligence.
As a modeler, I enjoy creating stuff. It tickles the poop out of me when someone sees fit to use it.
I seem to remember a time when this issue wasn't an issue. We shared, with pride and joy, and we all gave thanks.
Alas, it would appear, that camaraderie has diminished.
I reckon, by now, some of you have seen this thread:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/11257.htmlI still do work-on request-just not for the public-at large.Hawk

Last night I heard an old freight whistle blow, as I was sleeping warmly in your bed-And it told me "Boy, it's time that you was packin' up to go.", but I smiled and shook the leavin' from my head.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Bump-te-Bump

Last night I heard an old freight whistle blow, as I was sleeping warmly in your bed-And it told me "Boy, it's time that you was packin' up to go.", but I smiled and shook the leavin' from my head.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

here here, Hawk! I second that motion.

db

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2004 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.