Oops #3 Remote Control

Did you hear about the accident in Northtown a few weeks ago? The local switching crew here was the crew on the wreck, and were telling me about it when I was watching the train. (I don't need to say that remote control is dangerous) The train jumped the tracks and almost destroyed the remote job. The guy and me were talking about how bad remote is. Let's not go for remote.
In the MSTS introductory train ride, I have to comment on how bad they drive the train. They put light loco in notch 8, overspeed, then apply the emergency brake, go very slow, then notch 8, sanding in idle, horrible.

Unknown Person

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, heffed, Oct-01-03, 08:45 PM, (1) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, Magick_maker, Oct-01-03, 09:06 PM, (2) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, Baldwinbob, Oct-02-03, 00:02 AM, (3) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, sd70mac666, Oct-02-03, 04:49 AM, (4) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, robertlearmont, Oct-07-03, 07:21 PM, (6) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, heffed, Oct-03-03, 03:34 AM, (5) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, Macster, Oct-08-03, 03:40 AM, (7) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, Baldwinbob, Oct-09-03, 00:51 AM, (8) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, heffed, Oct-11-03, 05:07 PM, (9) RE: Oops #3 Remote Control, Dokkensound, Oct-11-03, 08:48 PM, (10)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

>Did you hear about the accident in Northtown a few weeks
>ago? The local switching crew here was the crew on the
>wreck, and were telling me about it when I was watching the
>train. (I don't need to say that remote control is
>dangerous) The train jumped the tracks and almost destroyed
>the remote job. The guy and me were talking about how bad
>remote is. Let's not go for remote. Well, as with most things. It's dangerous in the wrong hands.The problem is, Railroads see this as a chance to thin roster a bit. Why pay a high salary trained engineer to basically sit in the cab of a switcher while the brakeman/switchman tells him the movements to make?Great idea! Why not let the brakeman/switchman drive the loco? This way we need a crew of one instead of two! The problem being of course, the brakeman/switchman doesn't have the engineers training or experience, so of course they will have a bit of trouble "driving" the train without actually having "driven" a train!So no, I don't believe it's dangerous if the proper people are the ones doing the controlling. It makes more sense that if you need to trim the crew, trim the brakeman/switchman. Put the engineer on the ground. In short, let the guy who actually knows how to drive the loco be the the one driving it!>In the MSTS introductory train ride, I have to comment on
>how bad they drive the train. They put light loco in notch
>8, overspeed, then apply the emergency brake, go very slow,
>then notch 8, sanding in idle, horrible. Well yes... obviously. Why even comment on it?-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Taken from : http://www.trainweb.org/railwaytechnical/stories.htmReading the article entitled 'playing trains' reminded me of an incident that happened several years ago. I work as a locomotive fitter in the loco sheds of a very large iron and steel company in the North East of England. Back in the 1980's it was decided to convert our fleet of 20 or so 80-ton G.E.C. diesel electric shunting locomotives to remote/radio control. The driver, having first placed the loco in radio control from the cab then can control the loco using a hand set either from the ground or whilst sat on the front of the train as the loco pushes from the rear or from the cab itself (this being the bad weather option). In fact the loco will respond in radio up to 3 miles away but for obvious reasons allowing the loco to operate out of site is strictly forbidden.The locomotive shed is a 3-road shed with a large roller shutter door for each road and on this particular day we were busier than usual. The shed was almost full and 2 loco's were occupying a road apiece out side numbers 1 & 2 doors when a driver brought his loco to the shed and stopped just out side number 3 door . The driver then went into the shed and spoke to the chargehand about a fault on his loco but, being only a small fault and due to the heavy workload, he was told to use his loco for the time being and bring it back later in the day when hopefully things would be a little quieter. So obligingly the driver walked back out-side still with his hand set strapped to him and climbed aboard the loco on number 2 road and, thinking he was on his loco, released the brakes using his hand set and applied full power and was a little puzzled when the loco he was on didn't move then, to his horror, saw the loco on number 3 road (his loco) shoot forward, its 750 h.p. Dorman V12 engine on full song and disappear into the shed with the roller shutter doors wrapped around its front. By now the penny had dropped and our driver, realising he was stood on the wrong loco hit the emergency button on his hand set and stopped his loco before it disappeared out the back of the shed. I was working inside the shed at the time and will never forget my workmates and my-self running in all directions as this 80-ton monster roared through the doors! We all laugh about it now but at the time most of us required a change of underwear!

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>>>So no, I don't believe it's dangerous if the proper people are the ones doing the controlling. It makes more sense that if you need to trim the crew, trim the brakeman/switchman. Put the engineer on the ground. In short, let the guy who actually knows how to drive the loco be the the one driving it!<<<ABS-A-TOOT-LEE! At the now closed Erie Mining Company a person was trained in order: brakeman, conductor, locomotive engineer, then you went for the remote control training. If the railroads don't do this today it's crazy. I don't know.Old timers hated it at first but when they realized they didn't have to worry about where the brakeman was they were all for it. Not to mention the garlic eating, beer farting beasts they were. Main problem with remote control is people don't watch their point. Would an engineer run with a blindfold on? NO. You watch your point or you end up with a meet at the diamond....Bob

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I'm for remote control, being Canadian. Since they've used it since 1989
Dr. SatanI'm otherwise known as the SatanTrainI (was the one who) dragged your big assed dirty robbed car out of that ditch:

I Took Your Name
R.E.M.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I notice Canadians do things safer, there are CN trains coming here about as far north on the BN tracks that aren't in Canada.

Unknown Person

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

"ABS-A-TOOT-LEE! At the now closed Erie Mining Company a person was trained in order: brakeman, conductor, locomotive engineer, then you went for the remote control training."

As it should be."If the railroads don't do this today it's crazy. I don't know." Not so sure what all the roads are doing, but UP is handing the controls to the brakemen/switchmen. (at least in my area)Of course, the yard engineers got first choice of positions, then the conductors. But many of the yard engineers bid for roads jobs, and many of the conductors would rather not go back to a yard job just yet. So the empty slots are filled with B/S's. Astonishingly enough, the B/S's are being trained by other B/S's who have had a whopping 4 weeks (!!) training on the remote rigs before teaching other guys how to run them.That's a bit whacked if you ask me. You've got a guy who has only a slight grasp on how to run the remotes himself, teaching others how to do it! -Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-03 AT 03:41 AM (EDT)

US Railroads (BNSF and UP) only train RCO guys for 2 weeks........And you wonder why we have so many derailments and crap. The guys are basically with a trainer for a week, then 2 weeks of actual on the field testing.. and wah la! Your RCO Qualified....And Another thing. A RCO guy, unless he/she has had some experience.. are never as good as a guy at the throttle. RCO may save money.. but the of the when a derailment happens and has to be cleaned up, or when somebody dies... the money starts adding up.. fast.

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

--Power For You--

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>>>US Railroads (BNSF and UP) only train RCO guys for 2 weeks<<<RCO I take it to mean remote control operator. Were these people trained as locomotive engineers first? If not, ouch.At Erie Mining Company we had career brakeman, froze themselves as brakeman, many years running on the mainline to Taconite Harbor and back. The engineer would usually run to the harbor and the brakeman would run back. Does this happen on real railroads, brakeman running the train?Bob

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

>US Railroads (BNSF and UP) only train RCO guys for 2
>weeks........And you wonder why we have so many derailments
>and crap. The guys are basically with a trainer for a week,
>then 2 weeks of actual on the field testing.. and wah la!
>Your RCO Qualified.... Yup. Not much in the way of training. My brother in law is one of the trainers for UP. He had a whopping total of 4 weeks training himself before being "qualified" for teaching others how to run the remotes.And no, he has no engineer training. He is/was a brakeman/switchman. Reminds me of an old joke. (modified slightly) "Last week I couldn't even spell engineer, now I are one."Don't get me wrong, I like my brother in law and he's definitely not an idiot, but this is just assinine. I think that the people running the remote gear should go through engineer training.My brother who is a conductor for UP also thinks it's a stupid idea. He doesn't like coming into yards when remotes are running.-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Sorry guys but remote operation has little to do with the way an engineer runs a locomotive. I was qualified on remote over a year ago so I do have a bit of knowledge about it. The difference with remote is the computor interface in the locomotive. I set the direction with the remote and then select a speed. The computer then notches up the locomotive and monitors the speed as it nears the selected speed it adjusts the throttle and if needed applies the engine brake to hold the selected speed. The computer uses only the locomotive or independent brake to control speed. I do have the option of applying the automatic brakes to the cut if needed. If I'm making a tight spot I can take a first service off the cars and ease them to the spot. If I see a problem I can shoot the brakes at the flick of the wrist. This is a bit faster than screaming over a radio with 5 other crews switching away and hoping the engineer hears the comand and reacts quickly. I can bring cars to an eggshell couple again and again using
remote because I'm standing right there and can tell when to cut the speed from 1 mph to stop.
Now before everyone freaks on me I am not all pro remote control. I think like any technology it has a place. It would be perfect for switching some industries were a person on each end can watch the moves. I don't like seeing it used in a busy yard with other non remote jobs working and handling very long cuts. The biggest problem with it is there is no way to tell if the engine accepted the comand to move other than the bell starts ringing. Once it's several cars away you just have to stand and wait to see. I have never had one not accept a stop comand.So for certain applications like an industry that needs cars respotted all the time and the only thing working is the remote job I think it works well. In a yard with other jobs kicking cars and making moves it's a bad idea. I think many railroads are cooling to the idea of all jobs being remote. But I don't agree that being an effective and safe remote operator of a switcher requires the same training as a qualified engineer. It's like turning the simple controls on in MSTS versus running TrainMaster.
BTW, I worked as an RCO only once over the last year and was still able to nail smooth couples when requalifiying last month, it's that simple to run.

Dokkensound
Train Artisan
Lighting & Sound

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.