In re Arceneaux

Nota bene: I believe there is a central fact being overlooked here. There are those who are calling for the head of kevarc, and there are those who call for the heads of his detractors. This is utterly irrelevant. Likewise irrelevant are the relative value of Mr. Arceneaux's contributions to the train simulation community or the contributions of his detractors, or any other issue such as relative status in the community in terms of age, post count, or duration of membership.The central fact here is that someone---I don't know who and don't want that to be known---who has been set in authority over us by Nels Anderson sat down, saw the complaints against Mr. Arceneaux, and found them valid such that a warning was reportedly issued. The moderator did not have to do this. He (I'm assuming here) could simply have dismissed the complaints of several as being without merit and invalid. However, that was not what occurred. Had no moderator found these complaints valid, I do not believe we would be discussing the departure of Mr. Arceneaux. Just think about that for a little bit.I do not address the merits of the "case against kevarc" or the "case for kevarc" and I do not take any position on this issue. This post is purely for clarifyingly informational purposes.

____________________________________________________________________
Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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In re Arceneaux [View All], NW_611, 12:41 PM, Aug-19-03, (0) RE: In re Arceneaux, OTTODAD, Aug-19-03, 01:08 PM, (1) RE: In re Arceneaux, CBF, Aug-19-03, 01:35 PM, (2) RE: In re Arceneaux, ace6879, Aug-19-03, 03:08 PM, (3) Assumptions can be deadly, Robber Baron, Aug-19-03, 03:18 PM, (4) RE: In re Arceneaux, Curious142, Aug-19-03, 03:31 PM, (5) RE: In re Arceneaux, TrainTrak5000, Aug-19-03, 03:55 PM, (6) RE: In re Arceneaux, Curious142, Aug-19-03, 04:50 PM, (10) RE: In re Arceneaux, NW_611, Aug-19-03, 03:57 PM, (7) RE: In re Arceneaux, IcyFire, Aug-19-03, 04:01 PM, (8) RE: In re Arceneaux, Curious142, Aug-19-03, 07:53 PM, (17) RE: In re Arceneaux, Curious142, Aug-19-03, 04:41 PM, (9) RE: In re Arceneaux, Nels_Anderson, Aug-19-03, 05:26 PM, (11) RE: In re Arceneaux, NW_611, Aug-19-03, 05:39 PM, (12) RE: In re Arceneaux, Claude350, Aug-19-03, 06:07 PM, (13) RE: In re Arceneaux, ace6879, Aug-19-03, 06:42 PM, (14) RE: In re Arceneaux, Claude350, Aug-19-03, 07:18 PM, (15) RE: In re Arceneaux, DTA, Aug-19-03, 07:29 PM, (16) RE: In re Arceneaux, ace6879, Aug-19-03, 08:13 PM, (18) RE: In re Arceneaux, xgsft, Aug-19-03, 10:31 PM, (19) RE: In re Arceneaux, ssw, Aug-19-03, 10:46 PM, (20) RE: In re Arceneaux, ace6879, Aug-19-03, 10:54 PM, (21) RE: In re Arceneaux, chucksc, Aug-20-03, 00:05 AM, (24) RE: In re Arceneaux, BN_9402, Aug-20-03, 01:08 AM, (25) RE: In re Arceneaux, shep1935, Aug-20-03, 12:01 PM, (31) RE: In re Arceneaux, Nels_Anderson, Aug-20-03, 08:21 AM, (28) RE: In re Arceneaux, Claude350, Aug-20-03, 09:22 AM, (29) RE: In re Arceneaux, chucksc, Aug-20-03, 11:11 AM, (30) RE: In re Arceneaux, Nels_Anderson, Aug-20-03, 12:09 PM, (32) RE: In re Arceneaux, mailer_diablo, Aug-20-03, 12:44 PM, (33) RE: In re Arceneaux, dadbill, Aug-21-03, 03:07 PM, (34) RE: In re Arceneaux, kevarc, Aug-19-03, 11:18 PM, (22) RE: In re Arceneaux, dvdhoven, Aug-20-03, 01:24 AM, (26) RE: In re Arceneaux, ace6879, Aug-20-03, 01:27 AM, (27) RE: In re Arceneaux, chucksc, Aug-19-03, 11:51 PM, (23) RE: In re Arceneaux, Motley24Crue2, Aug-21-03, 09:12 PM, (35) RE: In re Arceneaux, annabelle, Aug-22-03, 01:12 PM, (36) RE: In re Arceneaux, Macster, Aug-22-03, 01:18 PM, (37)

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The main trouble with this world of ours is that people just can not live with each other without conflict, taking exception to other than their own views and opinions, politics, religion, way of life, etc.The AUSTRIAN attitude is "Live and Let Live" !!! As for KEV, he just had enough of all this bickering, or "posterior excrement" as he calls it, translated by me ! Cheers to you all,O t t o

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I couldn't agree more! I have never seen such nit picking as what as been happening on this forum. Several people think they own this site, and that only their opinion should prevail. I think that they forget, or never realized, that this is an International site, with language, culture, age, etc all being in the mix, and as such are too easy to take offence. Maybe they should reflect on a post for 24 hours before replying!Cheers, to allChuck F.

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and the mods let Georgi55 stay????Give me a break! Ya know, I USE to be the nicest guy, helped all I could on here. but when the trolls win, and peeps WHO CONTRIBUTE are warned, it gets OLD. All Kevin had a problem with was STUPID people. and believe me, HE GOT ON ME MORE THAN ONCE WHEN I WAS NEW...and we STILL got along. In fact, he made me a better person on here for it! I LOOKED and CHECKED before I wasted bandwith.
sigh..I won't win so I just choose to give up.

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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found them valid such that a warning was reportedly issued. I don't think we should make asssumptions about the motives or thoughts of the as-yet unnamed moderator. If he wishes to state them, let him do so, but I'm not going to entertain speculations.

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So, you established the fact that a forum moderator exercised his authority in regards to the case of Mr. Arceneaux's behavior on the forum being brought into question by a number of forum readers/participants. With all due respect, that's fairly obvious. The question now is: What's your point? Are you addressing the issue of whether the moderators have excessive authority or that they abuse their authority?Just Curious

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I think what he's trying to say is the moderators must have found some validity in the alerts they were given against Kevin. So they must have seen that it was more than just Kevin "telling it like it is," and believed that he really was out of line and a bit too agressive with others (however trollish they may have been acting) in some places.-- Mike Karlik --
-- "Power for you" --

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Thanks for clarifying the post to which I was replying. I suspected as much, but it was a little difficult for me to decipher. I guess I'm just kind of hard to get throught to sometimes.CB

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Yes. I agree that it's fairly obvious---or should be. I read most of the messages posted on the question, and the discussion seemed to warrant, to me at the time I posted it, a statement of an obvious fact. A primary point of protest seemed to be outrage over an ersatz mob charging to Mr. Arceneaux's electronic doorstep and dragging him into the street for a forum-based lynching. I thought this was an incomplete analysis and thus tried to supply the missing component. That was my point. I'm still not entirely sure that my point is being considered by all the posting parties.I neither suggest that there is excessive authority in the position of moderator nor do I suggest that there was an abuse of power. I do not address that issue---the thing appears, from the outside, to have been handled in a way at least nominally respecting the established procedure.

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Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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Guys.. I didn't want to Jump In this, But it's not Kev vs. Mod, It's Kev vs. Admin Vs. Trolls

Shawn Kenselaar, shawnssk@yahoo.com
Train-Sim Forum Mod; Texture Artist for TKW & YLW
MP 96.93 on the NYO&W Port Jervis Branch

Train-sim Lifer

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Kevin is gone, so the trolls must have won. And admin can't lose, it owns the place (and a very good place it is too).CB

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"I'm still not entirely sure that my point is being considered by all the posting parties"With all due respect, I would submit that maybe your point isn't being considered due to the fact that the parties perhaps aren't able to figure out what the heck it is.Just my humble thoughts on the subject.CB

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Your central fact is wrong.No one can ban a user other than me. Kevin has not been banned. I simply asked him to control his messages--to simply say nothing if he had nothing nice to say. Kevin himself admits to being rude and blunt. Being civil to one another is a basic requirement to participate in this forum though clearly enforcing that is a challenge. I told Kevin it was he choice. He chose to leave rather than to follow the rules. I frankly do not understand his decision, but it was his choice, no one else's.If other people cause problems don't just whine about it, complain to someone who can do something about it. Use the "alert" link when you see a problem message.

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Thank you for the clarification.

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Norfolk & Western’s Radford Division, Pulaski District: Who needs the Marias Pass?

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Well put Nels.Now hopefully we can put this issue to rest.Kevin has made a choice and we should respect that.When he's ready to return to the forum it'll be his decision.There's alot of hipocrisy here.Maybe we should all learn to just be quiet at times.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-03 AT 06:43 PM (EDT)

Ok Nels, If that is the case, why the hec is Georgi and some of the other trolls on here?? You mean to tell me you don't KNOW he is a trouble maker? Gimmie a break! Poison Ivy isn't as bad a irritant. Consider yourself noticed! Get rid of them before you lose ALL of the good ones and have just the immature brats here!You want to kick me for what I said go ahead. But if you are going to warn Kevin, I STRONGLY SUGGEST you get rid of the REAL troublemakers!
Clicking the "panic button" only goes so far! You can't tell me you don't know about the rest of the troublemakers!This whole thing blows my mind...what the hec is happening here?

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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Kelley please reread what Nels wrote.He didn't ban Kevin.This was a move that Kevin made himself.It wouldn't be fair to warn one then boot the others.Either warn them all or boot them all.I don't let the trouble makers bother me.I don't respond to them.If we all took that action they'd leave.Ever tried to argue with your self?

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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I doubt you know who the real troublemakers are. While I am not very enamoured with the people on here who send me viruses (the last lot was basic script kiddie stuff, and he even left his posting address on! LOL), I don't send their addies to Nels. There should be enough tolerance on here to cope with everyones' views. Macster has threatened to ban me 3 times, but personally, I don't think mods should post, and Nels runs this place very well.I have never been happy with Kevins attitude, but it was his own decision to lay off, so do not make a big deal out of it. He could have distributed his knowledge a lot better.Basically, if you can help, you try, if not say nothing. If someone gets too bolshie, tell them. David

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-03 AT 08:14 PM (EDT)

Hi Claude, Yes I did read it. I know kev wasn't banned. What I was getting at was WHY warn him and NOT kick off the REAL troublemakers?And I know Kev made his own mind up to lurk. What I am getting at is we have had the same flamers, troublemakers, pests, etc for months if not years now, and they keep coming back or never leave. Most, if not all never contribute, just cause trouble. People rode the hell out of BCDEF, wanted him gone, etc constantly for being a pest....but I'll take him over Georgi's (or a few others)crap ANYTIME!!Just don't seem like the right one got warned! If an idiot like me can see what Kevin was up to....it is NOT that hard! remember, he got in my arse a couple of times too!and 99% of the time I agree Nels does a fantastic job. This time I think he screwed up, and I am NOT going to apologize for saying what I said. If he choses to warn me, or kick me fine...but my opinion is shared by MANY here! (And opposed I am sure for that matter)and BTW, if Kevin is lurking around here....he is LOVING every min. of this I am sure!!

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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Damn right ace!

Mike Suitts

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I'd like to third that motion... in full agreement, Kelley.

Bradley Linda
Waco, Texas

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-03 AT 10:56 PM (EDT)

And for the record, BCDEF never bothered me..in fact, I was one of the few who were nice to him. Did I believe he was a teenager? Not really, but I can't confirm or deny his stories. Did I know better? well, probably, but I would rather err on the side of the person. My opinion was it was one of us screwing around. In reality, I thought it might even be Kev!! HEEHEEHEE!!!!! His "Hippie" Acela HAC ended up doing for him was cool to me, and I STILL run it. Some good came out of it IMHO.I meant to add this before, but it was over an hour.

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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I too support Kelley's position....Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Damn well said Kelley! These kiddies and newbies just opened a whole can of worms they will regret later on. Oh well, its their fault, not ours!Austin
Midwest Rail Group

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You sir are an arrogant ass!Don Shepley

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Hi Kelley...I guess what you and many others don't understand is how much time pressure I am under. I spend very little time in the forums so yes, I freely admit that I do not know who all the troublemakers are. That is why I ask you, when trouble occurs, to use the alert so that I can then learn about the problem. I want to keep things running smoothly but you forum regulars need to help me, and you are not doing it!Don't forget, I'm running two major web sites here. I have not had a day off since Christmas Eve of last year. It's not like I'm just letting the sites slide. However, I do have priorities. The thing that keeps the hobby going is new add-ons, so maintaining the file library is the top priority. Answering email probably comes next along with posting news, articles, etc. Reading messages in the forums is pretty low on my list of priorities. There are some great people here and I'd enjoy spending more time with you but there are only so many hours in a day.I only contacted Kevin because he generated a lot of complaints. Knowing that he's a valuable member of the community I ignored the complaints about him for a long time, but finally enough is enough. I do not want Kevin to leave. But I do expect him and everyone else to be civil to one another. I cannot be here to monitor every individual message but I will try to do something when problems are brought to my attention.So bottom line: if someone is causing problems, tell me. Complaining about it in the forums will not accomplish anything.One final thought...the so called "trolls" would be a whole lot less trouble if people would not respond to them. It's the threads spinning out of control with one nasty response after another that give the moderators headaches. Hit the "alert" on the very first problem message and get the message deleted instead of responding to it. If the forum regulars would do this the forum would improve a lot. To a great extent, the forum is what YOU make of it.

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Well put Nels.

Claude350 Piedmont Division Raleigh East
cdebnam@bellsouth.net

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>I only contacted Kevin because he generated a lot of
>complaints. Knowing that he's a valuable member of the
>community I ignored the complaints about him for a long
>time, but finally enough is enough. I do not want Kevin to
>leave. But I do expect him and everyone else to be civil to
>one another. I cannot be here to monitor every individual
>message but I will try to do something when problems are
>brought to my attention. Just a thought Nels, did you look at the pattern and timing of the complaints? I have this nagging suspicion that a cabal of a half dozen or so non-contributor/non-dues payers, who the rest of us could name, generated the vast majority of the recent complaints against Kevin in a coordinated and concerted effort to accomplish what they did. If we allow them to get away with this, who are they coming after next?Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Sorry, Chuck, but the conspiracy theories that are floating around are not true. There is no coordinated set of complaints being generated about Kevin or anyone else for that matter. They're quite random and have appeared over quite a period of time and at least some have come from people who are regulars and I'm sure would not want their names mentioned. Besides, I only act on a complaint after I verify it and find that it is valid.Remember also, no one has been banned. No one has been forced out. I really do not understand why Kevin would choose to leave rather than just toning down his messages a bit as I asked him to do.

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>One final thought...the so called "trolls" would be a whole
>lot less trouble if people would not respond to them. It's
>the threads spinning out of control with one nasty response
>after another that give the moderators headaches. Hit the
>"alert" on the very first problem message and get the
>message deleted instead of responding to it. If the forum
>regulars would do this the forum would improve a lot. To a
>great extent, the forum is what YOU make of it. I suspect the 'Alert' button isn't working anymore. Yes, it works until when you try to submit the alert report. Has someone tried out to see if it works?

http://koti.mbnet.fi/rogorox/

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>One final thought...the so called "trolls" would be a whole
>lot less trouble if people would not respond to them. It's
>the threads spinning out of control with one nasty response
>after another that give the moderators headaches. ...this is why I don't post very often in the forum...

db
Ceeanoh Shops

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-19-03 AT 11:21 PM (EDT)

This is my only post as I feel I need to respond and clear a few things up.1. I was not banned. It was treatened by Mr. Anderson to ban me if I did not change my ways. My ways are that I stand up for myself, I have used the alert button maybe twice in the entire time I have been here. I do not run to the mod whining and crying everytime someone is "mean" to me. I stand up for myself, I think a few of you need to learn to do that. Mommy will not be there forever. My way is to meet them head on.2. What rules? They only seem to be important at times, most times they do not. I still see a few scrolling GIF's here. Thought they were to be gone? Your rules are a joke and you know it. If you policed the trolls and kids better, maybe I would not have been so short with them. I asked you in my email if the other got a warning also, never did get an answer. If I was guilty, so were they.3. I am short and to the point. I always have been. Why use 20 words when 2 will do? I don't get paid by the word, I am not a lawyer or such, but an engineer. Some may consider that rude, I don't, I consider refreshing. Get your point accross, that is all. Rude, I do not suffer fools and trolls well at all. 4. I don't like threats, they really hack me off. I usually have a stronger and uglier reaction to them. But in this case, the gains are not worth the effort.I would like to thank those who have supported me in this. It is time to let these threads die.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Hi,Thanks for the explanation, Kevin.
Goodbye and I am missing the wolf already. Dick van den Hoven

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"I still see a few scrolling GIF's here. Thought they were to be gone?"Mine was still here..in protest..I thought it was and still do think it was a dumb rule....also, I was gone from the forums for quite a while and forgot about it too.I DID finally remove it when Chuck "thoughtfully" asked me to take it off ROFLMAO!!Not that the above was directed at me per say....LMAO....

Kelley D. Ellison
OK, CBPRA is gone...are you happy now?
CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-20-03 AT 00:03 AM (EDT)

Deleted!!!!For once Kevin was more articulate than me!
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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bye kevarcWell i hope all goes well with you and hopefully in time you'll be back here once again
Robert Steskal
Philadelphia, Pa

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My opinion, for what it's worth.If we can put up with someone who is a male chauvenist pig JERK, (DTA), Kevin is no problem. Please let's bring him back.Annabelle

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*sighs* I am going to have to lock this thread out. Would have started a war after that comment...

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW OC Manager

--Power For You--

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