Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz)

The other day while train watching, I saw a red 60ft boxcar with HLMX reporting marks and it had a black and white placard with the number 1869 on it. It also had some skullz & crossbones above the number. I assume that that was a very toxic chemical. and about 15 cars behind that boxcar was some MP 4 bay 100T hoppers and it had a substance that looked like coal in it, but it had a placard that had the number 3077. it was also a black and white card. I see these quite often and I wonder what it is. Any help is appreciated.

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RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), CSXALine, Jul-13-03, 10:37 AM, (1) RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), Knarf, Jul-13-03, 11:16 AM, (2) RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), ssw_96, Jul-13-03, 01:00 PM, (3) RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), CSXALine, Jul-13-03, 02:44 PM, (4) RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), Newton Kid, Jul-13-03, 05:50 PM, (5) RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), PatchCrew, Jul-13-03, 09:01 PM, (10) RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), Newton Kid, Jul-14-03, 04:41 PM, (15) RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), BlakeTyner, Jul-14-03, 06:55 PM, (16) RE: Chemical Placards On Trains (A Little Help Plz), ssw_96, Jul-14-03, 09:11 PM, (17)

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The numbers are referenced in this Book
http://hazmat.dot.gov/gydebook.htm
Download the .pdf here 1.7MB
http://hazmat.dot.gov/erg2000/erg2000.pdfhere you can see what the ID number means to Emergency Personellhttp://www.tc.gc.ca/canutec/erg_gmu/search/yellow.htm
For info 1869 or 3077 do not show up in the book
Jason Webb
Http://www.scl-aline.com

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Hi there, according to my little haz mat book, ID number 1869 is magnesium, which is a flammable metal, and 3077 says solid hazardous waste. I hope this helps.

Frank Schwalbach, Jr.
trains_tornadoes@juno.com

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Thank you Knarf. Also thank you too jason for the links. Will print out for trackside references when watching all them Texas chemical trains roll by.

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If you know someone at a chemical plant or FD in texas - they may be able to get you a copyJason Webb
Http://www.scl-aline.com

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SSW-96There seems to be a problem with your description. The Black and White Placard with the Skull and Crossbones tell anyone that the load is a poison. The 1869 is for magnesium which is not a poison but is very dangerous if it catches fire and they try and use water to put it out. If that is what the placard actually said, the shipper really made a dangerous error when they shipped it. The Environmentally Hazardous Substance is contaminated material that is going to a special landfill for disposal. You wouldn't want get into the material without protective suits, but there is no danger as long as you leave it alone.

Newton Kid

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Here is some info from the latest Emergency Response Guidebook which all railroad train crew members must carry with them. This is the same information book that fire personnel have.1869 Magnesium (Pellets, alloys, turnings, ribbons, or scrap)1869 is referenced with Guide 138 which gives info on what to do in case of a spill, how far to evacuate, and what to use to put out a fire. Guide 138 is listed as "Substances Water Reactive (Emitting Flammable Gases). When you read the potential hazards it say's:1. Inhalation or contact with vapors, substance, or decomposition products may cause severe injury or death.
2. Fire will produce irritating, corrosive and/or toxic gases.There are many more warnings and information but because we are talking about guide 138 here, which 1869 refers to, then you are talking about an inhalation hazard and therefore the poison placard is correct NewtonKid.>The 1869 is for magnesium which is not a poison but is very dangerous if it catches fire and they try and use water to put it out.Exactly. It's very dangerous if it catches fire. It would then emit harmful vapors. Any inhalation hazard is placarded as a poison.PatchCrew
UP Engineer

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PatchCrew,
I don't disagree with you that I would stay out of the smoke from a magnesium fire. I did get to my DOT Regulations book today and looked at Table 171.101. Magnesium should have a 4.1 Placecard which is "Flammable Solid". That placecard has a white base with red verticle bars. There is a flame symbol in the upper half. There is no requirement for a 6.1 Placecard as a secondary.The black and white placecard with the skull and crossbones is a Poison Class 6.1 Placecard.If that load had a 6.1 Placecard and carried the 1869 number than someone fouled up when the shipped the load. There is a tremendous difference in how to handle a 4.1 vs: 6.1 class load. If that load was in trouble, they need to assume it was a Poison 6.1 Class, Inhallation Hazard which is the highest group, until I could prove otherwise. Once they were done with the cleanup the Department of Transportation would have a serious talk with the shipper as they messed up.Hope you never see this in your work.

Newton Kid

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Hey SSW...you wouldn't happen to be my buddy Jokeamotive, would you? Up until today I didn't put two and two together if you can believe that.At any rate, you're so close you ought to come down and ride our steam train....we'd be happy to have you. Blake Harris
Engineer/fireman, Jefferson and Cypress Bayou Railroad

Vice Dean, Limbaugh Institute for Advanced Conservative Studies

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Yes tis I. Since we are pretty close, I might just have to do that one day. Thanks for the offer.

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