GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Association

LAST EDITED ON Jun-24-03 AT 06:19 PM (EDT) by Macster (moderator)

Welcome everyone, if you are interested in steam, especially the old Norfolk Southern steam program you will be interested in this site! General question, how many of you would like to see N&W 611 returned to operation? I sure would like to see that done! If so please come and visit the site and sign the petition to get her out of the VMT and back on the road as Queen of the Rails! She is the most modern 4-8-4 being that she was built in 1950 by the N&W in there own shops. She is also the most powerful 4-8-4 in the WORLD at 80,000 lbs of tractive effort. The purpose of this group is to get 611 out of the museum and restore her to excursion service like she was done in 1982. Thank You for visting and please check back often cause we will make sure we put updates up on the site!OOPS, I about forgot the URL where here it is http://ncsta.mowshed.com I would like to thank MOWshed.com for letting us host the site there.Adam Parsons
President NCSTA

Norfolk Southern Piedmont Division, Linwood Yard, Linwood, NC

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RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Adam3291, Jun-20-03, 10:29 AM, (1) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, jonathanmlewis, Jun-20-03, 02:24 PM, (2) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Adam3291, Jun-20-03, 03:16 PM, (3) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Poltergeist, Jun-20-03, 09:36 PM, (4) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Emmo213, Jun-22-03, 10:16 AM, (5) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Poltergeist, Jun-22-03, 06:21 PM, (6) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Poltergeist, Jun-22-03, 06:25 PM, (7) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Adam3291, Jun-23-03, 07:29 AM, (8) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Emmo213, Jun-23-03, 07:42 AM, (9) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, jonathanmlewis, Jun-23-03, 02:25 PM, (10) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Emmo213, Jun-23-03, 05:07 PM, (11) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, shep1935, Jun-23-03, 09:52 PM, (12) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associati, Adam3291, Jun-23-03, 10:12 PM, (13) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associate, Poltergeist, Jun-23-03, 10:32 PM, (14) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associate, Adam3291, Jun-23-03, 10:39 PM, (15) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associate, Poltergeist, Jun-23-03, 10:41 PM, (16) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associate, Macster, Jun-24-03, 10:14 PM, (17) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associate, Poltergeist, Jun-24-03, 11:26 PM, (18) RE: GRAND OPENING! North Carolina Steam Train Associate, Emmo213, Jun-25-03, 07:43 AM, (19)

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bump Adam

Norfolk Southern Piedmont Division, Linwood Yard, Linwood, NC

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It will be good if 611 does steam again on the mainline...http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge

Jonathan Lewis
jonathanmlewis@msn.com

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I forgot to post the URL for the petition! Click here http://www.petitiononline.com/nw611/petition.html to sign the petition to get N&W 611 back on the road again.Adam

Norfolk Southern Piedmont Division, Linwood Yard, Linwood, NC

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Im sorry but I doubt the museum will give up their cash cow because of some "online petition". Plus its a historic landmark, isn't their a law about buying or leasing a historic landmark?

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
Pissing off the whole planet.... one person at a time

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The idea is good, except there's no place to run her, no way to finance the restoration, and no finance to pay the outrageously high insurance. Sorry to burst your bubble.Brian

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Thank you! Thank you for being the voice of reason! I would also like to add that theres no way the museum would give up their cash cow. (611 draws in alot of money and so does 1218).

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
Pissing off the whole planet.... one person at a time

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-22-03 AT 06:25 PM (EDT)

and yes, seeing that 611 is the Last J (making it very very very very very very... valuable) the Insurance will charge a high price. I'm thinking along the 6 digits area.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
Pissing off the whole planet.... one person at a time

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Just because she is rare dosen't mean the insurance will be high. You guys really make me wonder if this is worth it, you know. I'm thinking about pulling the plug, I have gotten so much SH$T in my e-mail inbox and on this forum. If I do decide to pull this, I'm sorry to all the people that have signed.Adam

Norfolk Southern Piedmont Division, Linwood Yard, Linwood, NC

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-23-03 AT 07:51 AM (EDT)

Well, the thing is yeah, she's rare, and thus valuable, so the insurance will be high. I had actually meant to run the actual excursions the insurance would be too high. Look at all the other groups that have had to pull their programs - the 4449 group, the Frisco group, the Ohio Central, and I'm sure there are others. All these were pulled because of high insurance. Maybe if you included more information in your post, such as where the money will be coming from, who is going to do it, and where she will run. (The last one is a big one too. No way are you getting her on NS tracks) I'd love to see her running again as much as anybody. It's because of her I like the N&W in the first place. I still remember being very VERY young and traveling to see her whenever she came to Ohio. I just don't think it's realistic right now, especially from your post that basically said "if you want to see 611 run again, sign this post". Sorry man.Brian<EDIT>Sorry, I see you edited your first post telling us the group that would be working on it. I didn't see that before.

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Adam probley knows what has to be done to get it going more that you...http://groups.msn.com/MSTSNarrowGauge

Jonathan Lewis
jonathanmlewis@msn.com

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Alright, somebody I've never talked to is getting mad at my realistic opinion. Maybe he does, infact I hope he does. All I know about him and what he's doing is what was in the first post, and from that I still don't know anything about it except there a group that wants to bring 611 back. No mention of the strength of the group, the money, or any plans. So, maybe you can tell me these things?Brian

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Adam,
I'm sorry that you have caught so much flak regarding this matter! The NS would still be running this equipment if it were economically feasable for them to do so. In reality the the cost of operating these locomotives and their rolling stock, the maintenance cost of both equipment and track as well as liability insurance was more than the NS was willing to carry! Your dream was a good one!Don Shepley

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Sorry, I just got in from work. Ok, I have calculated about how much it will take on the restoration of the engine. Being that the engine is still in pretty good shape from when NS used it. Most of the repairs would have to be centered around the boiler cause her FRA papers ran out of time at the end of 1994. She would require some running gear work and possibly new drivers. I'm quessing it would take between $500,000 to $750,000 to see her run again. That does not include, aux tender, tool car, and crew car. I have not calculated insurance yet but I'm working on that right now.When NS stopped the program because they weren't making anything for breaking even with the steam program. At the time they killed the program they where not as big as they are now and a lot of there track was still single track mains. During 1994 in Lynchburg Yard that had a derailment and some passenger cars where damaged. Right after that the announced the end of the program. What really put the NS steam program in debit was the restoration of the 1218. The spent around $1,000,000 to rebuilt the engine but then 5 years later had to go and spend more money on the engine cause they didn't repair everything the way it needed to be done.Adam

Norfolk Southern Piedmont Division, Linwood Yard, Linwood, NC

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-23-03 AT 10:40 PM (EDT)

You do realize that the equipment you are talking about will have to be made by NCSTA. The reason being is well they don't make flues or driving rods anymore. Also since 611 is a Historic Landmark you cannot change anything about her without proper approval, and even then theres much of red tape. Its a nice dream, but its just not feasible, the financial strain will be too much, not to mention you gotta factor in how much people are actually going to ride and how much they are willing to pay. In order to make a profit, first you have to pay off your debts and bills, then the money left over will be profits. I'm sure most Steam Excursions program closed because the bills and debts were more than they can afford. Also the insurance will be 6 digits number, maybe even in the million's range because of the rarity and the valuably of the engine. You also got to realize that we are in the worse economic state in history, so prices are going up on everything man. I'm sorry man but its not going to happen.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
Pissing off the whole planet.... one person at a time

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Yes, they do still make flues, drivers, superheaters! Not going to happen. LOL Who said Rome was built in one day? This is going to take some time for people to catch on, but I'm confident that they will. Adam

Norfolk Southern Piedmont Division, Linwood Yard, Linwood, NC

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What company, do they have a website?

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
Pissing off the whole planet.... one person at a time

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Well if i may step in for a moment..Operating a Steam Locomotive this day and age is damn near impossible. Restoring, finding parts, hydra testing the boiler, etc. Then Insurance and then getting a qualified person to operate the locomotive. Tons of things come into play. Insurance will be around 1 to 1.5 Million. Depending on how and where you run at. This is the same problem that the SP 4449, ATSF 3751 and SP&S 700 guys are having as well.Your best bet if your really serious about getting something going. Talk to Doyal M. at Brooklyn Roundhouse.. he can tell you just about anything possible. And remember.. dreams are possible. Chris is 20 years old and he owns an ex-Amtrak F40.... When the time arrives, and the P32s are threatened.. keep an eye out for my name...

Brian E. Bundridge
Seattle, Wa

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Well heres my problem, 611 is the Last J EVER, and if sometimes happen to her on an excursion, like a wreck or accident then repairs will be costly, very costly. Not to mention that since she is Historic Landmark I want her to be preserved the way she was when she last run in 1994. Except if they plan to give her a new paint job. I just think that its better for the J and for everyone else, and future generation if 611 just stay in the shed and maintain by the museum. My 2 cent.

Sean Summer AKA Poltergeist
Pissing off the whole planet.... one person at a time

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Well, yeah it's valuable because it's the last one, but I think the insurance really would be the big thing now. Who really has $1 million to pay for insurance every time you want to take a trip? But nobody would ever try to change they way she looked. Even when NS was running her she was still owned by the VMofT. Do I think she should stay under a shed forever, well no, but I think if she does go running again it should be NS that's running her. Will that ever happen, probably not, but that's just my opinion. I see where you're coming from though. I think I'd prefer she stay in a shed instead of having her up and down a 5 mile piece of track, especially if she has to run backwards going one way. That'd just be embarrassing for a lady like her.Brian

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