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tryagin (127 posts)
Aug-20-01, 12:14 PM (EST) "Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Howdy, fellow train-stimmers!
Just watched a great video called "Into the Allegheny Range" part 4 "Sand Patch Grade". It covers the CSX operations from Cumberland Gap to Connellsville, PA. I'm a fan of the western RR's, and don't have any experience with the eastern roads. But, man, the scenery! This vid was taped over a 3 year period in all types of weather through all 4 seasons btween 1993-96.If you ever get a chance to view it( video or in person) do so! You wont be disappointed! The pre-and post merger paint-jobs are all there: B&O(!),Chessie, Louisville and Nashville, Seabord's Black and SCL Grey,Richmond Fredricksburg and Potomic, and various versions of CSX colors.
And the variety of Power is equally varied, from GP-10's In Western Maryland black, B&O GP-30's in dark blue and gold lettering(all but unreadable),tons of SD-40-2's,GP-38-2's, GP-40-2's, SD-50's and -60's, GE units, even an appearance of a coupla F-UNITS!
Then they take you up in a couple of towers and show the operation of the century-old lever plants. It's sad to think that most of these venerable towers have been demolished since this video was made.
At the end of this tape(2-tape set, 4 Hours!)you get a ride on a helper from Connellsville back up the western slope to Sand Patch to see it from the train.
It is from Iron Horse America and is released through Pentrex Video http://www.pentrex.com Sorry about the lenghth of this letter, but I think many of you would enjoy this tape. And it would be a great Train-Sim Route. Lots of different operations, helper action, Amtrak's Capitol Limited in both directions--well you get the idea, and it just that, an idea...Happy Railroadin'Thanks for listenin'Tim Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... milwaukeefan Aug-20-01 1 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... tryagin Aug-20-01 2 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... milwaukeefan Aug-20-01 3 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... tryagin Aug-21-01 4 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... Master Qui Gon Aug-21-01 5 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... milwaukeefan Aug-21-01 6 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... tryagin Aug-21-01 7 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... milwaukeefan Aug-21-01 8 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... Richard Aug-22-01 9 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... Master Qui Gon Aug-26-01 10 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... tryagin Aug-26-01 11 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... milwaukeefan Aug-26-01 12 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... tryagin Aug-26-01 13 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... milwaukeefan Aug-26-01 14 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... rob20 Aug-28-01 15 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... Master Qui Gon Aug-29-01 17 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... Richard Aug-28-01 16 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... Richard Sep-01-01 18 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... Master Qui Gon Sep-01-01 19 RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one inter... milwaukeefan Sep-02-01 20

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milwaukeefan (244 posts)
Aug-20-01, 03:10 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Typical Pentrek. Some of that info is wrong, because CSX didnt have any Western Maryland units except one, GP40 number 4173, which I have a picture of me in the cab of when I was 6 in 1993. It was repainted soon after, and even so, Im pretty sure that CSX had purged all early geeps from the roster by 1993. Anyways, I have railfanned there, and its a great area to want to model. I model ( as in model railroad) late Chessie in the baltimore area myself. I would make it, but im not very good at the route editor.
on another note, I hate pentrek tapes, but that is me personally. There info is off alot, and I cant stand seeing the power run by over and over. i llike to see the whole train, and Pentrek doesnt even do that with short passenger trains!!! If anyone wants good tapes with lots of correct info that show the whole trains, try Big E tapes. There are many of them from all around the country and Canada. theres even one on the NEC that includes a circus train coming of the Porter branch in Newark, which I was there to see. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tryagin (127 posts)
Aug-20-01, 05:05 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" How ya Doin, Milwaukeefan?Yes, Pentrex does have miss-leading info, and doesn't show the whole train, But this tape is NOT a Pentrex Production. It's produced by Iron Horse America and they DO show the Whole Train most of the time.Pentrex just distributes the set. It Is worthwhile and I still think you should check it out.
As far as the Wild Mary GP-10, I should've been more specific here and I apologize. They showed a WM unit shortly after they were absorbed by Chessie in Archival Footage, not in the '93-96 time frame I'd mentioned.
I also left out the fine Archival Shots of B&O action, with all kinds of steam and first generation Diesels as to give some background to the film(in COLOR,too).
As far as CSX purging earlier geeps, it was made clear that there was ONE GP-10 left and they showed it sandwiched between a couple of newer units, looking pretty beat, but there it was and the documentation of each shot was there on the bottom of the screen.
Happy Rails; hmm, 6 in '93? that makes you 14 the same age as my son. He's severely Autistic but he LOVES trains!( He's watching a Pentrex tape now,Steam Across America)
Take Care TM Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
milwaukeefan (244 posts)
Aug-20-01, 08:10 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Yeah im probably the youngest person on the forums.... But I grew up with trains- My dad worked for Penn central and Conrail then CSX for a few months after the breakup. BUT the GP10 might have been going to the Cumberland deadline, Last time I went to Cumberland, I saw a train at viaduct junction with lots of power, some obviously headed for the deadline and some deadheading. Its was really neat- had (in no particular order) 2 AC4400s, and AC6000, 2 GP39 ( very rare) and there cut down mates, a B23-7, a SD40-2, and a GP40-2. quite a train, 142 cars, but didnt need nearly that much power. The hump sets might have been going somewhere else, but I have a hunch that there destined for the scrap line. Special purpuse units are disapering, I bet there using SD38-2s now or Sd40-2s now. Oddly enough, in the yard I live near, which is a medium sized flat switching yard, small enough to get into, they are using GP40-2s AND SD50s as yard engines!!!! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tryagin (127 posts)
Aug-21-01, 01:28 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Man, I wish I had a forum like this when I was a kid!When I was 14 I'd go down to Brooklyn Yard out in southeast Portland(Oregon)because my grandparents lived a block away. That was Southern Pacific then. They used Baldwin S-12's - I can still hear their turbocharged chugging sound they'd make- as they switched all night long. Man, i wished I had the pictures I took! Black Widow "F-units" and geeps'n'cadillacs. Then another place I'd go was downtown to Spokane Portland and Seattle's Roundhouse where you could find Alco's and EMD's of the Northern Pacific, Great Northern and SP&S together. I still have a couple of those pix. Man, I feel old. That was 34 years ago! Times have changed. The ESPEE is UPEE, The Old Milwaukee is a memory, even as BN is changing. Thats life.Now the closest Rail line from where I live is the Toledo Sub of the Willamette and Pacific (ex SP)and I don't get out much, what with having to care for my son. Take every opportunity to take pictures of everything you can. I wish I had. You sometimes say"Oh, those ALCO FA's will be there next time", I must've thought that, 'cause I have only ONE good photo of one.
Go get an SD-50, before they make that last trip.Happy Rails!Tim
Lincoln City, Ore Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Master Qui Gon (121 posts)
Aug-21-01, 03:37 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Sandpatch?!? That's my route!!! I run for CSX out of Cumberland, up through Connelsville, via the Sandpatch grade. Actually, I continue on through Pittsburgh to New Castle, PA, but same route. It's weird seeing people talk about my home town and route. I live about a mile and a half from Cumberland yard.
I can't be sure about yard operations, but I know for road service, we currently use SD40's, SD50's and the occasional GP38. I'm not an enthusiast and don't know the history, but I don't think I've operated anything older than that. The oldest date back to the early 70's, which is plenty for me, seeing as how I was born in 1970.
Newer locos are EMD SD60's and 70's. I've not seen an SD80 personally, and we don't have SD90's. On the GE side, we use CW44's and CW60's. I prefer those, since I havent' been an engineer long enough to have been used to the old conventional cabs and control stands. They were using both by the time I hired out, so I prefer the wide cabs just for comfort, visibility and AIR CONDITIONING...AIR CONDITIONING...AIR CONDITIONING.
THE ROUTE IS BEAUTIFUL, ALTHOUGH I HAVE SEEN ONE MOUNTAIN LION WHILE I WAS ON THE GROUND BACK WHEN I WAS STILL A CONDUCTOR. THEY LOOK NICE IN PICTURES. I DON'T LIKE SEEING THEM IN PERSON, UP CLOSE. WHOOPS SORRY ABOUT CAPS.
I've seen some beautiful mornings on those hills. Autum leaves, snow covered trees, springtime blooms. Then for a change of pace, I see downtown Pittsburgh. A fun route all the way around if the dispatcher will just let you go...LOL
Sorry this doesn't contribute anything to creating the route or commenting on the video, but your topic caught my attention. I'm a young engineer who hasn't yet been discouraged by all the negativity of the crybabies.Master Qui-Gon
AKA: CSX Engineer, Baltimore Subdivision, Cumberland District Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
milwaukeefan (244 posts)
Aug-21-01, 11:15 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" I know someone who works that line sometimes also, but I cant remember his last name cause its odd. Ive been to Cumberland many times, love the place, just stay in the Holiday in and watch the trains go by with the giant windows. Im pretty sure youre probably using the 10 original SD60s to cause I remember them being based there...But alot of the SD70MACs come of the line to WV at Viaduct Junction with the coal. And most of the pig trains have AC6000s. Ive actually biked the entire C&O Canal towpath (twice), which starts out in Cumberland on the old WM roadbed, and parallels the B&O alot of the way. Its a really great trip.
I live near Wilmington, and within 5 minutes of CSXs line from Baltimore to Phili. basically every day we see trains on it, and amusingly the best spot to watch them is at Wilsmere yard, which is a medium sized flat switching yard. Its greta because the crews are nice and no one cares that we sit there, and we even drive through the yard and visit the yardmaster sometimes. many trains that operate on that line come through here, like Q136-135, Q375, Q138, which was detouring because of the Howard Street tunnel fire, and the occasional coal train. Interestingly, this line has the lowest AND highest priority unit trains on CSX. K651, the Tropicana train, and K251, the trash train!
Oh and whoever was talking about the good ole' days, my favorite railroad is the Milwaukee, and In my entire life Ive only seen one milwaukee painted engine, A beat up SD40-2 with black paint over the lettering, but no Soo line markings yet- and that was when I was 5! and I was born 3 years after Milwaukee died. I taken pictures of every CSX basically on their roster, cept GP40-2s, One engine I will never miss. Last week I even saw a pair of Conrail SD80MACs thunder through, there going to be really rare in about 10 years, because there are only 30 of them.
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tryagin (127 posts)
Aug-21-01, 01:27 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Master QG, Hi!,
Liked your post. Tell me, is Sand Patch Tower still operating or has it been automated? That's a museum piece and should be preserved, in my humble opinion.
Anyway, the scenery over there IS gorgeous and I'd consider moving to PA.for that reason and the trains , of course.Happy Rails Tim Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
milwaukeefan (244 posts)
Aug-21-01, 01:33 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Many ahve been. Im pretty suck HO at hancock MD is still open Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Richard (60 posts)
Aug-22-01, 08:01 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" LAST EDITED ON Aug-22-01 AT 08:01 PM (EST)Hello Master Qui-Gon, are you quailifed on both the P&LE and P&W? and which route west of McKeesport do you prefer? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Master Qui Gon (121 posts)
Aug-26-01, 02:10 AM (EST) 10. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" To answer both questions posted:
- I'm only qualified on the P&LE so can't compare routes, but have been on the P&W a few times as a trainee.
- The Sandpatch tower operator is still there for now, but it's my understanding it's to be automated in the near future.Master Qui-Gon
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tryagin (127 posts)
Aug-26-01, 01:16 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" MasterQG,
Does that mean they'll raze the tower?Tim Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
milwaukeefan (244 posts)
Aug-26-01, 05:33 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" It might be preserved, there are lots of towers that have been and lots of organizations to do it Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tryagin (127 posts)
Aug-26-01, 06:13 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" So, how does that work? Are the towers moved off the Property or does CSX allow for the preservation in situ? Just curious.thanks, tm Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
milwaukeefan (244 posts)
Aug-26-01, 09:27 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" They actually sometimes move it away and do it on a truck Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
rob20 (46 posts)
Aug-28-01, 09:27 AM (EST) 15. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Master Q when did you hire on the CSX? HOw many years service? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Master Qui Gon (121 posts)
Aug-29-01, 02:07 AM (EST) 17. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Rob,I only hired out in 1998 and have 3 years service. Started engine service last year. I'm one of the "young" engineers.Master Qui-Gon Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Richard (60 posts)
Aug-28-01, 11:35 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" >To answer both questions posted:
>- I'm only qualified on the
>P&LE so can't compare routes,
>but have been on the
>P&W a few times as
>a trainee.
>- The Sandpatch tower operator is
>still there for now, but
>it's my understanding it's to
>be automated in the near
>future.
>
>Master Qui-Gon Master Qui-Gon, thanks for the info
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Richard (60 posts)
Sep-01-01, 09:42 AM (EST) 18. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Master Qui-Gon, I'll try this again, you should reconize this place Thanks for all your info, and if you see a guy around QA or Beaver with a camara give a wave
Rich S. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Master Qui Gon (121 posts)
Sep-01-01, 06:56 PM (EST) 19. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Ahhhh, the Ohio River bridge at Monaca, just east of Beaver Falls, PA.
Also known as milepost PLE 25 +.
That is a great bridge to run over. Feels like the most sturdy structure in the world when you're on it. Track speed there is 40 mph, so you're slow enough to enjoy the view down the river.
And for the record, I wave at everybody.Master Qui-Gon Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
milwaukeefan (244 posts)
Sep-02-01, 10:15 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Sand Patch Grade--Any one interested in building this route?" Hey! I know where that is- about a mile down from there is an Inn called the Fallston Flagstop that Ive been to twice, its like a rest stop on the way out to Attica Junction and Silver Creek. Its a really great place- CSX is only about 20 feet from the house and you have a good unobstructed view. you can also see NS trains, but not too well. Master Qui Gon, when on the line its right where a boat ramp is on the other side, a yellow house with a great big porch to sit on and watch trains all day. its also right before a short bridge over a road Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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