Message Areas - "Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics"

Train-Sim.Com Message Areas

"Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics"

Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
Previous Topic | Next Topic Conferences General (Protected) Original message
Matt Vince (17 posts)
Aug-16-01, 06:55 PM (EST) "Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" Firstly, Aesthetics means how it looks.
In my humble, biased opinion, the current trains coming from all companies, Bombardier, Alsthom, Siemens, GM-EMD, everybody are, in a word, UGLY. The best looking of the bunch since Eurostar is the Adtranz 170, and thats not exactly pretty. There seems to either be an infiltration of european designers, some of whom I have nothing against but when looking at european trains J. Cooper's TGV is still the benchmark by which I compare, or there has been a rash of graphic design students employed by the companies. I dont want trains which resemble Darth Vadar's helmet, and I dont think a large number of people want them either. Therefore, in my aforementioned humble and biased opinion (I reckon the Class 91 is the best looking electric loco ever built in the UK) here are some tips for you budding designers who will build the replacements of today's awful Sci-Fi characters:
- Make it look good,
- No central division line down the cab, except maybe window frames,
- Avoid sharp angles,
- Give the perception of speed, make it look like its going 100mph when its actually standing in the station,
- don't go for pointy-bits too much,
- If is has an air-dam, keep it back if the cab is streamlined, so the upper and lower parts reach forewards to one point,
- Keep lights clustered, preferably in single units, but keep the light clusters restrained,
- Dont forget the yellow end!How to do it:
Class 91, HST power car, TGV set, Networker (Class 165/166/365/465/466)
How not to do it:
Classes 220/221/390 Pendilino/180/175/most other new trains.If in doubt, do what one railroad cheif did when the GWR King Class visited the USA - send your designers on art courses. Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... milwaukeefan Aug-16-01 1 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... SHEPLEY1935 Aug-16-01 2 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... Euston Aug-17-01 3 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... tryagin Aug-19-01 5 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... Kevo00 Aug-17-01 4 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... Matt Vince Aug-24-01 6 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... easagrippa Aug-25-01 7 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... MJL Aug-25-01 8 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... Matt Vince Aug-25-01 9 RE: Real Trains in the UK - a quest... MJL Aug-25-01 10

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Messages in this topic
milwaukeefan (200 posts)
Aug-16-01, 08:26 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" American trains if passenger look good NOW, but wont for long with the death of amtrak that usually fills the orders and keeps up enough money to research and design new passenger stuff. But I think P42s espiecially and F59s look good, and dont understand why frieght engines should look good, because thats not what there made for, And I think that AC6000s look great, even though they dont exactly ahve clean lines Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
SHEPLEY1935 (32 posts)
Aug-16-01, 08:48 PM (EST) 2. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" The preceeding two Gentlemen make very valid and compelling comments, but I still the think the Grandaddy of them all, the vaunted GG1, the the prettiest of them all and it was designed over sixty years ago! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Euston (175 posts)
Aug-17-01, 02:07 PM (EST) 3. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" Hey are you saying the Gatwick Express 460 units - that were designed Darth Vader himself, are UGLY?Euston

http://clix.to/trainsim
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
tryagin (78 posts)
Aug-19-01, 01:20 PM (EST) 5. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" I agree with milwaukeefan. The p42 has a very pleasing, if utilitarian appearance. The f59 is a good design(Sounds like a warbird"F59") One engine that I've always liked is the Brute strength appearance of EMD's GP-30. I was 10 when they came out and always wanted to have one.( Add to wish list).
Nowadays it seems design is hinged at one point: COST - Keep it simple with the lowest amount of materials and labor. Fancy styling Costs Money, and unfortunatley we, the fans, have to find beauty in the essence of the thing- the spirit, if you will.Railroad equipment will always have that going for it. I don't know why, but it does. Never felt this way about a factory or an refinery or an open pit mine, etc.
Well, anyway, I'm getting carried away here. Railroads are a passionate thing with me ... Sorry- carry on...Always willing to talk TRAINS,Tim Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Kevo00 (13 posts)
Aug-17-01, 05:46 PM (EST) 4. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" Hangon I think your being a little harsh here. Personally I think all the new trains look very cool indeed, I do like the 170s outside, I also like the outside look of the Voyagers (saw one for the first time on the ECML yesterday) and the class 175s are quite nice too. However I would have to say the real design bugger ups going on are operational ones and internal design ones - the 170s middle doors are just so awkward and drafty plus if the units are working in multiple there are no corridor connections between the units! The toilet looks awful, its cublicle is just sitting there at the end of the carrage!I was on a class 175 on the Windermere branch lately however and I have to say I do like the design of those inside as well as outside, well done to whoever designed them they are quite classy. Shame Scotrail didn't put more thought into the 170s like FirstBus clearly did when they bought them. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Matt Vince (17 posts)
Aug-24-01, 03:49 PM (EST) 6. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" For you americans, I quite like the Amtrak trains, and a lot of the freight engines. Freight engines dont need to look good, they just need to look purposeful, look as if they can do the job. The old F-, E-, PA- etc units inspired our own class 37 and 'Deltics' and look good as well as being SAFE (large box in front of you kind of thing) On reflection the Virgin Pendolinos from certain angles look ok, but the old APT was better.....
175s are ugly, theyre like 321s with badly deformed front ends, and the GEx units? Darth Vadar himself! I guess I just want a TGV line through Salisbury !!!!!! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
easagrippa (12 posts)
Aug-25-01, 00:14 AM (EST) 7. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" I don't mind British trains to much, I love the stremlined coronation class and the mallard, and class 37's aren't bad looking. As others have said before however, American trains were always the prettiest, I can't find a more beautiful picture than Alco Pa-1's in DRGW 4 stripe leading the Vista-Domed California Zephyr through Gleenwood Canyon, or a GG1 coming of the Broadway Limited at Harrisburg, PA and being replaced by a T1 or a pair of streamlined K4's. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
MJL (36 posts)
Aug-25-01, 01:27 AM (EST) 8. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" Two observations
1) I do not know of the European engines you talk of (due to my American ignorance), but as far as aesthetics are
concerned what one person considers non-pleasing to look at, another person could consider the best looking
engine around. This could be the good looks of a heavy freight engine that was properly designed for its assigned
task. Or good visibility from a switch engine, as opposed to the high-vision blocking noses of the F, and PA units.2) As for your comment of "175s are ugly, theyre like 321s with badly deformed front ends, and the GEx units? Darth Vadar himself!", I don't know exactly what they look like, but I highly doubt they resemble something Vader would have designed.
I think his work would more closely resemble some of the Alco switchers, or early GE U-boats. The two following
links are of Vader's, earlier, non-Railroad related work.http://www.starwars.com/databank/droid/c3po/index_movie.html http://www.theforce.net/episode1/oldPreq/ships/anakinspod.htmlhope that helps in clarifying Darth Vaders design talentsMatt
Denver, CO Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Matt Vince (17 posts)
Aug-25-01, 12:25 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" MJL
http://www.gatwickexpress.co.uk/
look here, the GEx units. worst looking train i ever saw.http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/ch/private/Cisalpino/Switzerland/pix.html
Best looking train ive seen (multiple unit train)http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/gb/electric/91/pix.html
Best looking electric loco ive seenMatt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
MJL (36 posts)
Aug-25-01, 12:46 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Real Trains in the UK - a question of Aesthetics" Oh, yeah, on the GEx units I wasn't sure if you were talking GE as in General Electric, or a road name.. But on your first link w/ worst looking train.. I, um, aaa, I was going to try to say something good about it, but I would have to agree w/ you that they could have done better.. I don't think its so much a matter of bad body, but a combo of bad body and bad paint.On the second link, I would have to say that it looks pretty good, like a good fast passanger train.I couldn't get the 3rd link open...
Overall though, I still like what I like, the stuff that I can go down the road and see...no offense to your prefrences intended...Matt Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic