Fallen Flags

Fallen Flags - I find it hard to believe that anyone would WANT a railroad to become a "fallen flag" in this day of downsizing. Any devotee of trains, either model or prototype, I would think, would want MORE trains and railroads rather than fewer.I am referring to a remark made in a signature that reads something like..."It's time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag" or something of that nature.As long as all other forms of transportation are being subsidized, I see no reason to eliminate Amtrak from the rails. I have enjoyed thousands of miles of travel behind Amtrak units on and off Amtrak routes.Road Foreman

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RE: Fallen Flags, kevarc, Dec-20-02, 09:32 AM, (1) RE: Fallen Flags, CRSD40, Dec-20-02, 10:31 AM, (2) RE: Fallen Flags, sooner, Dec-20-02, 10:42 AM, (3) RE: Fallen Flags, kevarc, Dec-20-02, 10:47 AM, (4) RE: Fallen Flags, Hack, Dec-20-02, 10:52 AM, (5) RE: Fallen Flags, kevarc, Dec-20-02, 11:09 AM, (6) RE: Fallen Flags, rd4man, Dec-20-02, 03:52 PM, (8) RE: Fallen Flags, kevarc, Dec-20-02, 04:05 PM, (9) RE: Fallen Flags, SHEPLEY1935, Dec-20-02, 07:59 PM, (10) RE: Fallen Flags, rd4man, Dec-20-02, 08:14 PM, (12) RE: Fallen Flags, SHEPLEY1935, Dec-21-02, 06:16 AM, (13) RE: Fallen Flags, rd4man, Dec-21-02, 08:34 AM, (14) RE: Fallen Flags, SHEPLEY1935, Dec-21-02, 11:22 PM, (24) RE: Fallen Flags, rd4man, Dec-23-02, 05:26 PM, (28) RE: Fallen Flags, metrolover, Dec-20-02, 08:13 PM, (11) RE: Fallen Flags, SHEPLEY1935, Dec-20-02, 01:19 PM, (7) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-21-02, 10:09 AM, (15) RE: Fallen Flags, SHEPLEY1935, Dec-21-02, 11:04 AM, (16) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-21-02, 11:15 AM, (17) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-21-02, 11:21 AM, (18) RE: Fallen Flags, sooner, Dec-21-02, 01:47 PM, (19) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-21-02, 02:59 PM, (20) RE: Fallen Flags, sooner, Dec-21-02, 04:29 PM, (21) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-21-02, 06:10 PM, (22) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-21-02, 06:11 PM, (23) RE: Fallen Flags, sooner, Dec-22-02, 00:15 AM, (25) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-22-02, 01:42 AM, (26) RE: Fallen Flags, fallnflags, Dec-22-02, 02:31 AM, (27) RE: Fallen Flags, Long Island Rails, Dec-24-02, 10:21 AM, (29) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-24-02, 10:31 AM, (30) RE: Fallen Flags, Long Island Rails, Dec-24-02, 10:36 AM, (31) RE: Fallen Flags, sooner, Dec-24-02, 10:48 AM, (32) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-24-02, 11:19 AM, (33) RE: Fallen Flags, Long Island Rails, Dec-24-02, 11:40 AM, (34) RE: Fallen Flags, chucksc, Dec-24-02, 01:08 PM, (35) RE: Fallen Flags, ace6879, Dec-25-02, 02:40 AM, (36) RE: Fallen Flags, sooner, Dec-25-02, 03:10 AM, (37) RE: Fallen Flags, ace6879, Dec-25-02, 12:19 PM, (38)

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So you don't like my sig. TS. I can see from your profile that you are one brave person, just initials and nothing else. No guts? I can tell that you will be a valuable addition to the community.Yes, it is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag. Other than a few places is serves no usefull purpose, busses go the same places. I am tired of the government lying about how it would become self supporting. They powers that be have know since day one that that was BS. They have consistently shown that Amtrak will never, ever break even. Until the tell the truth about the financial situation of Amtrak since day one and the truth that it will FOREVER require government subsidies to continue operate, I will say it is time to furl the flag. The only reason for many of the trains running was/is to appease a politician to get money. Byrd of WV is a prime example.Kevin Arceneaux
It is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag!

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Well, I hate to break the news to you "Road Foreman" but there are going to be somethings in life that you don't agree with. Life goes on.

-----------------------------

Happy Holidays!
Kyle Norek, Milepost 76 on the NS Buffalo Line
MSN Messenger: crsd40@hotmail.com

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These responses border on rudeness and insult. I don't see the necessity or value of injecting attitude into the debate over Amtrak subsidies. The issue has been well worked over in this forum and there are positive arguments on both sides. Why be hostile?

bud

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When I am singled out and attacked, I am not supposed to reply?Kevin Arceneaux
It is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag!

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I didn't see it as an attack - your first paragraph was harsh, while you made your point in a clear and reasonable tone with the second. Cheers!
Marc - 3DTrains
http://www.3dtrains.comPro Series Super Packs

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Ok, maybe attack was to strong a word. It just people want to post something like his post, singling my comment out, and then when you look at the posters profile there is nothing there. It makes you wonder what and why they want to hide. Is it an existing poster trying to hide or is a new one making comments? Either way if you want to say something about me or what I say, don't hide, I never have.Kevin Arceneaux
It is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag!

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kevarc,I am sorry that my post was so upsetting to you. I realize that print media does not always convey "feelings" as well as face-to-face, or voice. However, I DID get a feel of how you felt!I did not actually say that I did not like your sig. It just seems a little out of place in this type of forum where trains of all kinds are being discussed. It is certainly your right to post just about anything you wish.As to my profile.....I fail to see what my name, address, etc. has to do with anything. I get enough junk mail and junk phone calls as it is without displaying my name and city on an open forum. I can tell you that I am a male, aged 65 and live in Florida. I guess my "group" would be normal like the rest. My hobbies, which I see you do not list, are just about all forms of transportation and golf. I'll add even further that I am a retired airline Captain AND railroad Engineer.Again, I'm sorry you were upset with my post.Long live Amtrak!!

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Just imagine what the railroads would be like if they got their fair share of transportation funds. As it stands now Congress will only give them barely enough money to carry on.It would be best to break up Amtrak into regional carriers. Do away with the cross country junk. It can be done, look at BPA and TVA or any of the other public power entities, they get the job done at a cheaper cost to their customers that private companies do. Kevin Arceneaux
It is time for Amtrak to become a fallen flag!

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SHEPLEY1935
Charter Member

Dec-20-02, 07:59 PM (EST)

10. "RE: Fallen Flags"
In response to message #8

Engineer on what railroad? AAR or tourist? Are you a member of the BLE? "FRN" seems to be an apt description based on what little you tell us about yourself!

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Both, actually. And, no I am not now, nor was I a member of the BLE. We were not represented by a Union at the time. BLE would have been the Union of choice, however.Not sure what "FRN" is supposed to mean. Clarify, please.How much is one supposed to tell about one's self anyway? Looks like all the profiles I've seen are pretty sparce.....and rightfully so in this format.

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SHEPLEY1935
Charter Member

Dec-21-02, 06:16 AM (EST)

13. "RE: Fallen Flags"
In response to message #12

A profile should provide enough info so that a reader is able to judge if the person has a knowledge base to support his or her written positions. Your not knowing what a "FRN" is causes some doubts in my mind! On what railroad did you receive your DOT/FRA 49/240 cerification as a locomotive engineer?

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KLS&C out of Paw Paw, MI. We interchanged with CSX at Hartford, MI.I could put just about anything in my "profile" and it would not make it legit without photo copies. I see some responses here that are supposedly knowledgeable on the surface, but lack credibility. Nevertheless, I did include an expanded profile to "kevarc" in my apology to him.The fact that I do not know what you mean by "FRN" does not neccessarily mean I am unqualified to respond to certain matters. I can think of a few things that it MIGHT mean, however.

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SHEPLEY1935
Charter Member

Dec-21-02, 11:22 PM (EST)

24. "RE: Fallen Flags"
In response to message #14

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-02 AT 11:31 PM (EST)

The KLS&C RR went out of business in 1995 when it was sold to Pioneer Rail Corp. of Peoria. Is the KLS&C the road where you recieved your DOT/FRA certifcation?

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Yes.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-02 AT 08:17 PM (EST)

Look what I'm adding to my signature!Long live Amtrak!



Next Station Metro Center doors open on the Left
Gifs From http://www.geocities.com/epdphillips/trains/
Alex

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SHEPLEY1935
Charter Member

Dec-20-02, 01:19 PM (EST)

7. "RE: Fallen Flags"
In response to message #0

Based on your input you must be a "FRA" who hasn't worked for a railroad or in the industry in general. The harsh reality is that most government entities have and are taxing railroads at a higher rate than their competitors, trucks and barges. Both of those industries are highly subsidized by the federal government via Interstate Highways and the Army Corp of Engineers and its river traffic responsibilities.Although I am not in complete agreement with "kevarc's" position I do understand it! Amtrak was and is a financial boon doggle from its inception. Until our Federal and State governmental legislator's accept their responsibility in either new legislation, that properly and rationally subsidizes Amtrak or shuts it down, Amtrak will become a Fallen Flag and rightfully so.Not since Mr. Claytor ran Amtrak, and currently Mr. Gunn, has Amtrak
had knowledgable leadership. Unfortunately is has been run by political hacks and members of both houses of Congress that have faciliated it failure! I suggest that you get your facts together before you jump into a discussion regarding the sink hole!

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-02 AT 10:23 AM (EST)

>>> Edited for Spelling and Grammer <<<Good Points Shep and Kevin both of you....I too would like to see the Railroads get a fair share of the transportation dollars. IMHO, we need the 3rd leg of the transportation triad just as strong as the others (Road and Air)... The events of 9/11 proved that, when Air was shutdown for an extended period. We are also, at least in the North-East running out of places to pave in order to expand the road network. On 9/12 the only reliable long distance transportation in the North-East (I95 was a parking lot) was Amtrak...Having said all that.... It should be noted IIRC that traditionally from its inception Amtrak has been a political pork barrel second only to the old time Post Office and Staffed in the Customer Service area by people with the same Surly and Rude attitude and poor work ethic!!! (Note: there are exceptions as in everything and it seems to be improving especially among on board personnel in the Northeast! However I recently had to change Trains in Philly and actually thought of jumping over the counter, really through the window, and putting a boot up the a$$ of the clerk I was dealing with at the ticket window!) It has been run as a jobs and vote getting mechanism not a business... Turbo Trains to West Virginia????? (Come on Mr. Byrd) IMHO Mr. Gunn has taken on a labor of Herculean proportions... (aside; I wonder if the TGV and Bullet Train projects faced the same problems??? Corruption among French and Japanese Politicians???? Naw Never Happen ) As Will Rogers once said, "all politicians are crooks, just some are crookeder!" If we take an objective look at the "opposition" to Amtrak we come up with just as many warts as the people buying votes with Amtrak.. FWIW, There have been anecdotal stories for years that John Glenn's opposition stems from some combination of the following; 1.) Living in Arizona he is friends with and derives major financial support from people significantly involved in Southwest Airlines and 2.) His wife was "dissed" on a trip on Amtrak once (see above about surly and rude employees)..... The rest of the Republican Leadership is, IMHO and I are a Republican , being led down the garden path of "Free Enterprise" for a Public Service by people who stand to profit with the break up of Amtrak.... And did I mention "Campaign Contributions"?Amtrak needs fixed desperately! However IMO dismembering it and privatizing it may be counter productive. Right now Amtrak has statutory authority to run on any railroad and this right is not transferable. The railroads have stated repeatedly that dealing with lots of organizations instead of one will be a nightmare. Look at how lousy they are as a rule in dealing with Commuter organizations... CSX has stonewalled VRE for years, delayed startup for years and thus tried to get major upgrades to their physical plant not having to do with supporting commuter service.. They only grudgingly acquiesced when given assurances of "some" upgrades and were threatened with condemnation proceedings. Think that is unique? Do a google search on the Down-easter and Guilford Transportation. Look at what the Borg does to discourage passenger traffic on their system! Worst dispatching and on time record in the industry IIRC. So do we "throw out the baby with the bath water" and dismember, sell off and otherwise privatize Amtrak (anyone remember when THAT was done to BR?? Anyone remember the results? Not exactly a stunning success... I wonder how may Billions the UK government/taxpayers will be forced to anti-up to "Repair-Recover" from Rail-Trak's problems) or do we do whatever it takes to fix Amtrak and the critical infrastructure problems that all the RailRoads now have given the lack of capital to invest in physical plant due to depressed profits caused by being to compete unevenly against the public subsidized Planes and Trucks.... I wonder what would happen if Southwest Airlines for instance would have to pay for ATC and the property tax on its routes and physical plant including airports and IIRC landing fees recover less than %20 of the true cost of these publicly subsidized services???????? Oh! and d0 I need to remind you that even with all the public subsidies United and USAir are both Bankrupt! I wonder how many billions we will be expected to "loan" them??? So much for Free Enterprise in Public Transportation!FWIW, That's our national transportation debate going on right now in Washington. you should write your Congress-Critter and express yourself. And if you've got a couple of thousand bucks laying around you don't know what to do with send them that too, Bribes are apparently accepted! Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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SHEPLEY1935
Charter Member

Dec-21-02, 11:04 AM (EST)

16. "RE: Fallen Flags"
In response to message #15

Now that is what a FULL BROADSIDE from an Iowa Class battleship feels like my friends...and a partisan broadside at that!!!!!!!!!!!

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-02 AT 11:16 AM (EST)

Shot out!Target Straddle!High Order Secondary Explosions!
Fire for effect!
ROFLMAO!
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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">FWIW, There have been anecdotal stories
>for years that John Glenn's opposition stems from some
>combination of the following;...."$hit what was I thinking of I meant John McCain! Chuck

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Wait, you may be onto something. Ever see them together? Two guys supposedly named "John," one an ex-Marine hero, the other an ex-Navy hero, one an allegedly moderate democrat, the other an allegedly moderate republican - invest in a cheap hairpiece and you've got all the bases covered!

bud

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-02 AT 03:01 PM (EST)

ROFLMAO!
Well as I recall the "word" among us "enlisted swine" (pejorative term we inherited from the RN and used among us as a joke) was, way back when we were all younger (BTW, I was on active duty in the Navy at the same time as these two guys!) that John Glenn was a gentleman and that McCain was a spoiled admiral's kid with matching attitude... (In my experience Most fighter pilots have an attitude that is best typified as "Short Guys with Small Johnsons Overcompensating" - Think Tom Cruise in Top Gun! - For McCain to stand out in this group he must have been a real piece of work! )FWIW, I am basically a moderate Republican myself ( Moderation in everything governmental; Less Government-'Cause they can't do anything right - See Amtrak and the Postal Service; Strong defense 'cause the world is a dangerous place and the bad guys only understand strength; Pro-Choice - cause I'm a guy and it ain't my body - Though I do feel I am entitled to 49% of the vote on it; Civil rights - They are part of America and everybody is entitled to them period! Equally! End of discussion! As an aside I am deeply offended by "Billary's" claim that all Republicans are anti-minority and just want to keep them down - I've got family buried at Gettysburg who wore Blue Uniforms and died for the Union... I wonder what Bill's confederate ass ancestors were doing at the same time????? Speaking of history and truth wasn't Abraham Lincoln a Republican? I think his ID card was serial # 1 and weren't Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee et. al. Democrats????? Wasn't the KKK dominated by Democrats for most of its history (I didn't think they allowed republicans in there along with blacks,jews and "furreners" and others whose Mother and Aunt weren't the same person and had an IQ higher than an alert carrot's!) Possibly Bill should stick to shtupping big haired chicks and stay out of this particular discussion! End of Off Topic Political Speech! Chuck Schneider

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Interesting how things intersect. I was a Naval Aviator myself, '68-'73; my first tour was as a jet flight instructor at McCain Field (named for the senator's grandfather) in Meridian, Mississippi. I was public affairs officer for my squadron and I met a lot of locals - politicians like Al Key, the mayor of Meridian, who with his brother pioneered in endurance flight using midair refueling in the '30's. There had been a series of church and synagogue bombings over the months preceding my arrival there. Every day I flew over the earth dam at Philadelphia where Schwerner, Goodman and Chaney had been murdered and buried by the Klan with help from Neshoba County sheriff's deputies. Nixon's Southern Strategy was just taking hold. The dixiecrats who had been repudiated by Roosevelt in the '30s were now registering Republican and running for office. I met these guys and, believe me, they were hard core states-rights. What they had in mind was the state's right to segregate. You're right, it is not fair to tar all Republicans with the racist brush. My ancestors were also Lincoln men, on my mother's side, and fought with the illustrious Lightening Brigade at Chickamauga. In a racist community, she taught me to believe in equal justice for all. I know that you and millions of other Republicans believe in it, too. But it is a fact that Republican national candidates have exploited segregationist sentiment to win southern votes. I believe that most in your party are truly sickened by these views - and that millions of black voters, who often hold conservative religious, family and social views, will flock to change registration if you turn your backs on this segragationist trash.

bud

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Yeah well I don't really consider those guys Republicans... neither do most republicans... Hell Dubya was very clear to Sen. Lott about how offensive his remarks were no matter how innocent the intent! In fact wasn't the whole intent of the brouhaha to get Lott to resign so that the current Democrat Governor of his state could "appoint" a Democrat to replace him and put control of the Senate back in Reach of the Democrats if Sen. Daschle can find another Republican senator to Bribe into switching sides.... Preferably one who had just had his re-election campaign financed by the Republican National Committee... At least that is the "word" I am hearing around the Capital at the "working stiff" level.... Oh what tangled webs we weave to deceive.... And BTW, What about Sen. Byrd? Now there is a Real Card Carrying member of the KKK (at least determined to be so in the Past)! He even used the "N" word (as offensive as you can get - and I'm not even close to politically correct and it bothers the ##### out of me)in public.... Where was Billary's big mouth on that one... Oh wait he was doing quality checks on Moanica's thong wasn't he???? And she was bemoaning the vast right wing conspiracy... I think that was while cashing campaign contributions from the Chinese Intelligence Service wasn't it?
I'm trying to think of a Single example of the National Republican Party exploiting segregationist sentiment other than the Welfare Queen adds of some 15 or 20 years ago and Gallup & Co. determined that proportionally just as many Democrats felt the same way about the Welfare System (Hell Billary even gave lip service to reforming it because of the openly visible Fraud and Abuse problem)! Must be the same guys who want to steal my dad & mom's social security check and lay awake at night plotting how to keep black kids from getting school lunches and quality education, brought to you by the NEA (the folks who brought us "Outcome Based Education").... Nobody I know... And hell I work in DC... You know I've only ever heard Democrats raise the Race issue.... Maybe because it is in their political interests to keep the US stuck in the Post-Reconstruction/Segregationist Mind Set in order to exploit differences among our people rather than bring them together??????Best answer in defining the differing philosophical approaches of the two political parties I ever heard was...The Republicans seem to feel you know best how to use the money you work for and want you as an individual to succeed and to that end they try to get government the hell out of the way as Governments have demonstrated themselves, over the course of history, to be uniquely in-efficient.... (Think US Post Office or HUD)The Democrats OTHO seem to feel that they know best how to spend your money which they consider the Government's money anyway that you are allowed to keep at the Government's suffrage and they want to cater to groups as it is in their political advantage to Balkanize America and keep people at logger heads??????Like I said this is at the crux of the current National Debate for the hearts and minds of America...Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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P.S. Naval Aviator eh??????
I'm a retired Submarine Force Mustang....
Now I know how to get your goat for sure! LOL!BTW, How tall are you? (See my earlier statement about Tom Cruise and TopGuns - LOL)
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-02 AT 00:15 AM (EST)

So this young JG aviator type drops by station sick bay for some routine thing, and he's in the examination room in the altogether when a cute Navy nurse comes in to check his vitals.
"This won't take long, Lieutenant" she says. "We'll have you back at your squadron in no time."
"What makes you think I'm a pilot?" he asks, his ego swelling a bit.
"Oh, we can always tell," she says, shaking down the mercury in her thermometer. "Great big watches, little bitty d______s!"

bud

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ROFLMAO!Heard it before but not in quite a while... Still love it...
Next door neighbor is a retired Marine Aviator... Might just run that by him since its one of the few that I haven't!"Submarine Sailors Do It Deeper"Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Dang..people be using my name in vain!!! LOL

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While your on the subject of politics...this was a letter to Billary.
Dear Mr. Ex-President:I recently saw a bumper sticker that said, "Thank me, I voted for
Clinton-Gore." So, I sat down and reflected on that, and I am sending
my "Thank you" for what you have done, . . . specifically:1. Thank you for introducing us to Jennifer Flowers, Paula Jones,
Monica Lewinsky, Dolly Kyle Browning, Kathleen Willey, and Juanita
Broderick. Did I leave anyone out?2. Thank you for teaching my 8 year old about oral sex. I had really
planned to wait until they were older to discuss it with them, but now
they know more about it than I did as a senior in college.3. Thank you for showing us that sexual harassment in the work place
(especially the White House) and on the job is OK, and all you have to
know is what the meaning of "is" is. It really is great to know that
certain sexual acts are not sex, and one person may have sex while the
other one involved does NOT have sex.4. Thank you for reintroducing the concept of impeachment to a new
generation and demonstrating that the ridiculous plot of the movie
"Wag the Dog" could be plausible after all.5. Thanks for making Jimmy Carter look competent, Gerald Ford look
graceful, Richard Nixon look honest, Lyndon Johnson look truthful, and John Kennedy look moral.6. Thank you for the 73 House and Senate witnesses who have pled
the 5th Amendment and 17 witnesses who have fled the country to avoid
testifying about Democratic campaign fund raising.7. Thank you, for the 19 charges, 8 convictions, and 4 imprisonment's
from the Whitewater "mess" and the 55 criminal charges and 32 criminal
convictions (so far) in the other "Clinton" scandals.8. Thanks also for reducing our military by half, "gutting" much of
our foreign policy, and flying all over the world on "vacations" carefully
disguised as necessary trips.9. Thank you, also, for "finding" millions of dollars-I really didn't
need it in the first place, and I can't think of a more well deserving
group of recipients for my hard-earned dollars than jet fuel for all of
your globe-trotting. I understand you; the family and your cronies have
logged in more time aboard Air Force One than any other administration.10. Now that you've left the White House, thanks for the 140 pardons
of convicted felons and indicted felons-in-exile. We will love to have
them rejoin society.11. Thanks also for removing the White House silverware, I'm sure that
Laura Bush didn't like the pattern anyway. Also, enjoy the
housewarming gifts you've received from your "friends."12. Thanks to you and your staff in the West Wing of the White House
for vandalizing and destroying government property on the way out. I also
appreciate removing all of that excess weight (China, silverware,
linen, towels, ash trays, soap, pens, magnetic compass, flight manuals,
etc.) out of Air Force 1. The weight savings means burning less fuel, thus
less tax dollars spent on jet fuel, thank you!13. And finally, please ensure that Hillary enjoys the $8 million
dollar advance for her upcoming "tell-all" book and you, Bill, the $5
million advance for your memoirs. Who says crime doesn't pay!14. The last and most important point- thank you for forcing Israel to
let Mohammed Atta go free. Terrorist pilot Mohammed Atta blew up a bus
in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As
part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to
agree to release so-called "political prisoners." However, the Israelis would not
release any with blood on their hands. The American President at the time,
Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, "insisted"
that all prisoners be released. Thus Mohammed Atta was freed and
eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade
Center.This was reported by many of the American TV networks at the time that the
terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports.Why shouldn't Americans know the real truth? What a guy!! If you agree
that the American public must be made aware of these facts, pass this onGod bless America and THANK YOU (once again) for spending my taxes so
wisely and frugally.SINCERELY,
A US CitizenP. S. Please pass along a special thank you to Al Gore for "inventing" the
Internet, without which I would not be able to send this wonderful letter

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ROFLMAO!OK, this is an "Equal Opportunity Board" so we are open to rebuttal by our liberal friends in the "loyal opposition"!Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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I am ducking!

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Never mind. You and Rush tell 'em: Hillary was the actual button man in the Foster "murder;" George W. is a great patriot who kept the Texas skies free of Migs on the eight or nine days he showed up for drill; he and his administration didn't ignore Clinton's security advisors' warnings about Al Quaeda; and the Republican Party, the party of Lincoln, didn't sell its soul to win in the South. Poor Trent Lott - so misunderstood. I'm sure you, like W., were shocked to find he's an unreconstructed peckerwood bigot. And have you checked your 401k lately? I'd trade my kids' finding out that normal people have oral sex to finding out that pirates and thieves control the nation's business and industry through Republican campaign contributions. Oh my God, Bill goosed the pizza girl! Why doesn't someone think of the children!!?

bud

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Good Points!
Typical Liberal argument full of ad-homonym arguments....
OK Lott is a Bigot and we fired his ass....
What about ole "Pecker-wood" over there in West By God?????
Lott at least was not uncultured enough to use the "N" word....
(not much consolation but some)(His tenure is now up to the people of Mississippi now )
He's still there and no one is marching in the streets to remove him... And there are actual pictures of that guy in a "sheet"...
As far as Dub-ya being in the guard and "missing out on SE Asia"... Trust me he didn't miss out on much! And at least he didn't get spit on in Philly Intl A/P like I did on my way home...
At least he didn't hide in England as a Rhodes Scholar who never attended class, wrote letters to his ROTC adviser that he "abhorred the military" and snuck off to Moscow at the height of the cold war... This is all documented in Billary's past...Hey this is getting good! We can have some fun with this!
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Man oh man! It could not have been said better. Chuck, you and your family have yourselves a wonderful holiday. I am going help the wife start cooking our Christmas Eve turkey before PETA tells me I can't eat it.

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LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-02 AT 01:16 PM (EST)

BTW, as a perfect example of what I am talking about when I mentioned ad-homonym arguments take the phrase "on the 8 or 9 days he showed up for drill";He actually was qualified as a fighter pilot IIRC and maintained that qualification for several years... Trust me you definitely can't do that in 8 or 9 days and Sooner you of all people should know better... (even if he was in the ANG )"Oh my God, Bill goosed the pizza girl" Actually as a matter of fact he did a $hit load more than that... His conduct met the Federal Sexual Harassment Standards and the "Managerial Unprofessional Conduct Standards" by any test... If you or I or any corporate executive behaved in such a way we would be un-employed "tut suite"!
As a former Naval Officer you of all people should understand what would have happened if you carried on like that with an Enlisted Wave in your command and on Government Property and Squadron Spaces at that! Why didn't Billary as commander in chief have to adhere to the same standards??? If I was a Woman I would be so offended by the excuse making that was done for him! Kathleen Willey was not some Trailer Park Trash but was a woman in desperate need of financial help for her family and he tried to parley that for sexual favors (not alleged but actually did as testified to and admitted in open court)... You and I would go to jail for that... Tell me again how that was ok for Him?
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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um Kev, (he says ducking in fear) While I don't NESS want to lose Amtrak and all intercity service, I am curious if you think the class ones would continue with long distance service? The US still NEEDS rail. But what has bothered me since '71 is the fact the govt. subsidizes EVERY form of transport to the tune of BILLIONS. (I seriously expected them to give United Airlines the loan!!) But when Amtrak needs funds, OH MY GOD!!! IT IS MURDER!!! LIQUIDATE IT!!!I wish Amtrak would become a fallen flag ONLY for the reason of getting the fat cat politicos OUT of the railroad business. SIGH It will NEVER get the funding it deserves, nor will it ever be able to grow and prosper. The freight lines see to that. Penalties are hardly EVER severe enough for delaying trains, and god forbid yo umight actually have to route a stack in the hole! (other side of the coin...the stack is the bread-and-butter)In a perfect world, all of the class ones still have their own fleet of passenger trains, and they are the pride of the line. In today's rail industry, we have ONLY Amtrak. Someday the USA is going to NEED the passenger trains again, and that day is NOT far off I fear. So in conclusion, I am indifferent to the signature. I was just curious how you thought is all. and to all who read this...PLEASE DON"T LOOK AT THIS AS A FLAME RETORT!!!Thanks!! Merry ChristmasKelley D. Ellison



CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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You said "Penalties are hardly EVER severe enough for delaying trains, and god forbid yo umight actually have to route a stack in the hole! (other side of the coin...the stack is the bread-and-butter)"For the uninitiated, what are you referring to?

bud

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Howdy, Freight railroads can and have been charged penalties for purposly delaying Amtrak trains. Unfortunately, 25000 is no where near enought to matter to the railroad makking millions a day or week. And a stack train is a double stack container train. In the hole means a meet in a siding between two trains, and right now the "stack" is the hottest train on the line! Delay that, you may get fired. Kinda like passenger trains use to be!Hope it helps!!! Time for Christmas dinner!!Kelley D. Ellison



CSX A-Line Chief lighting engineer
NALW Lighting engineer
Dekosoft Lighting engineer

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