What A Bunch Of Bull!

Anyone who watched Dateline Thursday last night on ABC will know what i'm talking about. We as railfans are being watched, turned in, searched, asked to leave, asked not to take pics of chemical cars, and other dangerous cargo, and all that security crap, but on Dateline thursday last night, some guy was photographing military ops
and had took pics aboard a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE and they were freely showed over the airwaves. It showed the controls of the sub, all around the sub, just a lot of pics from inside a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE. Wait a second, now if I was to take a pic of a car full of annhydrous ammonia and broadcasted it live, and explained parts of the car, I would surely be questioned be the proper authorities. But here is a guy taking pics of a NUCLEAR SUBMARINE, who is freely alllowed to show them on NATIONAL TV. It even gave the location of the sub. Thats not right in my opinion. But its the gov't and they do as they like. SO if I ever get questioned when i'm railfanning again, you can bet that I will bring this up. What do you think about it?

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RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, precision, Nov-29-02, 08:20 AM, (1) RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, SHEPLEY1935, Nov-29-02, 11:37 AM, (2) RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, IcyFire, Nov-29-02, 11:46 AM, (3) RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, SHEPLEY1935, Nov-29-02, 12:52 PM, (4) RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, ge44tonner, Nov-29-02, 12:54 PM, (5) RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, SHEPLEY1935, Nov-29-02, 01:07 PM, (7) RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, jhilden, Nov-29-02, 12:57 PM, (6) RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, SHEPLEY1935, Nov-29-02, 01:19 PM, (8) RE: What A Bunch Of Bull!!!!!!!!!!!, ssw_96, Nov-29-02, 02:43 PM, (9)

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Well thats the government for you, they'll let you see what you want to see, and you wont see or photograph what they dont want you to. But thats how it is. Well its not that bad down here but in Memphis, they citated someone for being by the bridge going over the Mississippi. But im with you on this one.

If you're gonna do it, do it with precision.

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-02 AT 11:38 AM (EST)

Bring up the sub story and I think some cop will look at you as if you are nuts! RZight or wrong our country is in a heightened state of sercurity and it doesn't make much sense stepping over the line as perceived by law enforcement officers (local, State and Federal)!When I was a small lad during WW2 Railroad security was tight, to the extent that there were armed guards stationed on and under the bridges
and they didn't hesitate in shooting at trespassers! When I was a young fireman, in the 1950's, the railroad that I worked for served two large and high security federal ordnance plants. Before we could enter these plants to set out or pickup cars Security Personnel would climb up into the cab of our locomotives and check us for identity. The Security Officers would take our pocket watches and take off the backcap of the watch and check the serial number of our watches. They would check the serial number and our name againt that which was shown on our Company Watch Inspection Card. If you didn't have your card you didn't go in. The Company would give you brownie points for not having your card on your person. Every time the Road Foreman of Engines came up into the cab he would ask to see your card and watch!Hope that You and Yours had a nice Thanksgiving Day Holiday!

Don Shepley-Chicago

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Don, what RR did you work for? was it the Santa Fe? Perhaps you can answer a quick question for me, Would the ATSF been older then Union Pacific had it not mergered with BN?
Building a New rig for MSTS

Shawn "Icy-Fire" Kenselaar
ShawnSSK@Yahoo.com
You're friendly screen shot forum mod, Have you had your shot today?

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The ATSF was chartered to build in 1859 and the UP in 1862. But the question opens a can of worms. Based on charter dates I would say the ATSF came first! Hope You and Yours had a great Holiday!!!!!

Don Shepley-Chicago

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-02 AT 12:56 PM (EST)

I seem to recall that the Union Pacific, under that name, laid its first rail going west from Omaha in 1862 during the US Civil War. I recall that the 'Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe', under that name, did not lay rail until 1866, going west from Atchison. So, I guess that based on the dates of actual construction, the Union Pacific is a couple of years older than the Santa Fe.
Dan

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LAST EDITED ON Nov-29-02 AT 01:17 PM (EST)

The first surveys for the new UP route did not start until the spring of 1864 and the first rail was laid in Omaha July 10,1865! The first ATSF track was laid on October 3, 1868... who came first depends on whether you accept the charter date or build date. A can of worms at best!

Don Shepley-Chicago

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This might help explain a little.
I'm sure all those pictures within the sub were cleared by the Navy. What was showed on TV, was of no secruity concern. I did not see the show, but saw many like it that showed a "tour of a nuke sub". I doubt they showed pictures of the reactor and the communtications set up. Any of the puctures showed on TV have no value to a terroists. Subs are heavily gaurded and very difficult to breach. SO a threat of terroists taking over a sub is very rare; although I think that former Navy SEAL guy (Who worked for the govt to test secruity) did succeede a few times. The location of the sub is of no concern either unless it was in a classified area doing a classified op. Subs move quick, it's useless to know were he was, it's more important to know were he's going. Also the Navy never uses the most direct route to go somewere. I was on float once and we did more zig zags to get to point a to point b. A train full of anhydrous ammonia (I think majority of it is anhydrous in industry), is very easy to use as a weapon - it is very accessible with little information, it can be very dangerous, and it could be used with little effort or brainpower.. Yes a nuke sub could take out a country. But it only would take a few people little effort to scew up a lot of lives by derailing a train and having all those chemicles leak all over. Most of the chemicles on trains are not diluted or neutralized. The ammonia on a train most likely is very potent even in little doses. Imagine 25 10,000 gallon cars derailing and leaking 1/4 of the load. Subs are gaurded heavily. Railroads are out in the open and nobody can gaurd them all 24/7. So to make it up, they pick on anybody who might be one bit supicious and at least check them out to make sure. I've been stopped and questioned many times while train spotting. Most of the police have been polite and asked a few questions and went on their way. If you get heated with them, you'll only make things worse. They want to know why you are there. They are not concerend about a sub on tv. You might get harrased a few times but as long as you are not breaking any laws - like tresspassing or loitering, you have nothing to fear. Joe

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Joe,Well said...damn well said!

Don Shepley-Chicago

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Well i mighta jumped the gun on that one just a little bit, but it had me wondering why pics were being shown of a nuclear submarine on national tv. But now it kinda makes sense to me. Sorry for the spout.

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