Cajon Canyon

I remember from a trip to the area several years ago that there was a connection at Devore between then AT&SF and the SP Palmdale cutoff; if such a connection still exists it would be nice if the MSTS add-on from 3D had included it as it would present additional route choices.

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RE: Cajon Canyon, SVTS, Oct-29-02, 09:57 AM, (1) RE: Cajon Canyon, rdamon, Oct-29-02, 01:31 PM, (2) RE: Cajon Canyon, SVTS, Oct-29-02, 02:21 PM, (3) RE: Cajon Canyon, rdamon, Oct-29-02, 02:46 PM, (4) RE: Cajon Canyon, shoskins, Oct-29-02, 03:26 PM, (5) RE: Cajon Canyon, SD40T_2, Oct-29-02, 06:19 PM, (6) RE: Cajon Canyon, shoskins, Oct-29-02, 07:09 PM, (7) RE: Cajon Canyon, McCloud_River_John, Oct-29-02, 08:54 PM, (8) RE: Cajon Canyon, Curt, Oct-29-02, 11:38 PM, (9) RE: Cajon Canyon, SVTS, Oct-30-02, 00:57 AM, (10) RE: Cajon Canyon, Curt, Oct-30-02, 08:00 AM, (11) RE: Cajon Canyon, SVTS, Oct-30-02, 11:06 AM, (12) RE: Cajon Canyon, bnsf4794, Oct-30-02, 05:14 PM, (13) RE: Cajon Canyon, shoskins, Oct-30-02, 05:19 PM, (14) RE: Cajon Canyon, McCloud_River_John, Oct-30-02, 10:33 PM, (15)

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I personally don't recall the connection at Devore to the SP cut off, and I was just there. The basics for the route are there to begin with, and not every branch and piece of track is possible. There is for example, a branch line at Victorville that goes north to the airport, and that is not there.But if you still want to go from the ATSF tracks to the SP tracks, you can do so at Riverside by jumping on the UP main line and taking it west to West Colton. Not having the connection at Devore, if it still exists, does not take away from possible route choices.But I've looked at maps and other documents about Cajon, and I don't see any signs of a branch to the SP.ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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The BNSF Timetable lists that crossover at MP 69.4 wich is near where I-15 crosses the tracks after the I-15 - I-215 Split at the base of the pass.After the "merger" UP installed another interchange to BNSF Main 1 at Silverwood (BNSF MP 56.6)These as well as the sidings at Cajon and Summit were omitted. I guess due to various MSTS issues.If I ever become fluent in Route Editor I would like to add those as well as add a little more detail to the Hesperia, Victorville and Apple Valley areas.This weekend I will take a trip back to the area, so I will try to get some photos of the interchanges. (From a safe distance of course )Robert
Marietta, GA

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I'm not fluent with the RE, or building routes, but I would have to say they ommited certain branches that might interfere with signalling, and or terrain issues or they just were not put in for lack of needing them. Like I said above, they were going after the basics to railroading over Cajon, and they captured it perfectly in my book.I would like to have seen more scnery in the built up areas, but they did it the way they did to help keep FPS in check. You have to remember, some users have low end systems, and Cajon still has to run on those systems. I think Victorville is outstanding as is, with the exception of the trees which kill my FPS from about 20 at the cement plant or 25 at the crossover, to around 8 in downtown Victorville, all due to the custom trees.I just have to take the time to go in there and get rid of some of those freeaking trees.ChrisIt's not a game, it's a way of life.

http://groups.msn.com/tehachapi

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You're probably right!! 3DTS has probably done more to stimulate the economy than the Senate (Video card, sound card, memory and cpu purchases)!!!I agree the downtown Victorville area is almost dead on (Less crime however), but having lived in Hesperia for a few years you always want to see your old stomping grounds. I used to enjoy eating at the restaurant at the Hesperia Airport and watching the action on the rails.
I hope none of my comments are taken as criticism of 3DTS products. Having both Tehachapi and Cajon Pass that have allowed me to re-create Southern California without all of the brown-outs!!!I eagerly await their next releaseRobert

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Agreed, wholeheartedly -- they did an excellent job of recreating Cajon Pass!! Though certain details were omitted, I don't think they really matter.As for the original question, though, about a crossover near Devore -- I seem to remember one SOUTH of the Devore Road crossing -- it was installed in anticipation of the SP-SF merger and removed very shortly after the merger was turned down by authorities.Presently there IS a connection from the UP (former SP) to the BNSF about a mile north of the I-15 overpasses. I haven't ventured east of Summit, so I cannot verify exactly where the one is up there.One thing I can say -- I actually DID learn where something on the route was, after living in southern California for 34 years....I always wondered exactly where the flyover is near Frost. Always heard it was out in the middle of nowhere, but after running 3DTS's Cajon Pass route, looked at a map, and found it is fairly accessible. Maybe next time I'm up in the area I'll stop by it to shoot some photos.

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i've been to Cajon many of times and i never recall anything like that at Devore..... there's a connection between the SP line and the SF line at the Colton X-Over, maybe that's what u ment?

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No, there WAS a connection -- VERY short-lived. I don't think it was ever used....but it was about half a mile or so south of the Devore Road crossing. I think it lasted all of a couple months in anticipation of the SF-SP merger, and it was torn out within a couple weeks of the merger being dis-approved.

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The connector track downhill from Summit and above MP57 is well used, I watch UP trains (mostly S/B) cross over from the Santa Fe to SP tracks quite often. I don't venture down to Devore much, and I thought those were taken out, but I could be way wrong.Two weeks ago, I spotted the ultimate BSNF train sitting at Summit. BNSF (Warbonnet) GE Dash whatever / Oakway SD60 / Oakway SD60 / BNSF (Green) SD40-2 / BNSF (Yel/Blu) SD40-2. All that could have been missing was an old LMX unit.

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Shoskins is right, there was a cross-over built in anticipation of the merger. I've got a picture of it on a video somewhere.

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Hey thats funny, I've got a picture of your video camera!It's not a game, it's a way of life.

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Chris, didn't you get my message to you Monday? Was saying I checked out your updates, and really liked what I saw! Only thing was, next time you've gotta tell that a**hole to move his tripod!

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Yeah, I read your e-mail, thats why I couldn't resist posting above. It's not a game, it's a way of life.

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There was (possibly still is) a crossover built at KEENBROOK (North of Devore\Dike) between the ex-SP and ex-Santa Fe. I left that out for track-database reasons at the time. Also I left out Silverwood Crossover (at top of the hill) for the same reasons. However, I'm sure there will be future versions of this route as future versions of MSTS come along, so I will probably add those back in when the time comes.John Greenstone
3DTS Route Guy
www.3dtrainstuff.com

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That one is still there, John!! Very visible from old ROute 66 (Cajon Blvd.) above the Kenwood Avenue intersection.

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Thanks, I rarely go to the bottom of the pass.John

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