Removal of Posts

This is getting out of hand. There was a post on in the Sound forum that was removed. It was not a flame war. Why is it if one person complains the post is removed. If you are crying and whining over a post were someone says they do not like what you did. This is totally wrong. It is censorship of the worst kind. What are they people going to do when they get to the real world?Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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RE: Removal of Posts, georgi55, Sep-15-02, 06:39 PM, (1) RE: Removal of Posts, LawrenceKellie, Sep-15-02, 06:58 PM, (2) RE: Removal of Posts, kevarc, Sep-15-02, 07:04 PM, (3) RE: Removal of Posts, georgi55, Sep-15-02, 08:40 PM, (4) RE: Removal of Posts, zhivago47, Sep-15-02, 09:27 PM, (5) RE: Removal of Posts, AlphaMaster, Sep-15-02, 09:39 PM, (6) RE: Removal of Posts, zhivago47, Sep-16-02, 11:03 AM, (12) RE: Removal of Posts, SHEPLEY1935, Sep-16-02, 12:01 PM, (13) RE: Removal of Posts, kevarc, Sep-16-02, 12:09 PM, (15) RE: Removal of Posts, highball5, Sep-15-02, 10:02 PM, (7) RE: Removal of Posts, kyleh24, Sep-15-02, 11:35 PM, (8) RE: Removal of Posts, CPR_Malice_96th, Sep-16-02, 09:57 AM, (9) RE: Removal of Posts, SHEPLEY1935, Sep-16-02, 12:07 PM, (14) RE: Removal of Posts, LawrenceKellie, Sep-16-02, 10:36 AM, (10) RE: Removal of Posts, DarkestRose, Sep-16-02, 10:49 AM, (11) RE: Removal of Posts, CPR_Malice_96th, Sep-16-02, 12:56 PM, (16) Regarding Removal of Posts, Macster, Sep-16-02, 01:49 PM, (17) RE: Regarding Removal of Posts, zhivago47, Sep-16-02, 03:13 PM, (18) RE: Regarding Removal of Posts, CPR_Malice_96th, Sep-16-02, 03:28 PM, (19) RE: Regarding Removal of Posts, BlakeTyner, Sep-16-02, 10:35 PM, (20) RE: Regarding Removal of Posts, zhivago47, Sep-17-02, 00:07 AM, (21)

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LOL! Look who's saying THAT.
I dont know what YOU do in real world to survive.
I sure hope not the same way you make posts in here.

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Mr. Kevarc.What you are forgetting is that this forum is the personal property of Nels Anderson. As such, he can do with it what he wants. If, for whatever reason, he wants to even shut down the forum, he can. This forum is not protected by the Constitution of the United States, or any other document "guaranteeing" freedom of speach.And, if Nels determines that post(s) are inappropriate, he will delete them without consulting anyone--including you.Lawrence

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-15-02 AT 07:05 PM (EDT)

Lawrence, I understand that, it just seems to be going a bit overboard lately.BTW, Georgi I have only complained about a post once, how many times have you? FYI, I am a safety & Environmetal Manager for an Utility.Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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I didn't mean about this post. I ment about your posts in general.

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While this may be true Lawrence, I am afraid I am with Kevin here. I had at least one post that I know of deleted in the past couple of days and not really sure why other than my complaining about some of the idiots we have on here (and they deserved to be removed from the forum). Irregardless of the fact that it is Nels' forum, common courtesy would be to email that person and tell them that it was pulled and why. If it were on my site, I certainly would.I have been on here for some time, maybe not as long as some of the others, and I think I have contributed to it, however in a small way, but I am really getting to the point, with this and the downloads area problems, that I am seriously considering staying away from this forum permanently. I just don't think we get enough feedback or explanations from the owner of the forum. Now this will probably get me pulled off anyway, or this post will get pulled, but I am getting a little fed up with what is going on in here and no one is explaining anything. And the fact that he owns this board does not negate the fact that it is a common courtesy practice to inform people why certain things are done here without explanation. Everyone can continue to make excuses all they want about this being his board and his right to do what he wants, but I for one think this is wrong. This is a board he set up for us to discuss and use to talk about MSTS. It was his decision to do that knowing full well what he was getting into. He has set rules and guidelines. If I am not breaking those rules, then why should my post be pulled? If he feels I am breaking those rules, I should be told the reason in a personal email. Anyway, those are my feelings on the matter. I have nothing against Nels, and hope he doesn't feel like I do, but I just think I and others should not have our posts pulled without an explanation. I have never seen that in any other forum that I have been a part of.Just my opinion, you all may have yours that is your right. If this post is pulled then I am definitely leaving here and not coming back, because it isn't right!!Tim
The Spur Line
http://tahunter.net
Appalachia RR - Midwest & Rocky Mountain RR - ADFRR Route

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-15-02 AT 09:40 PM (EDT)

BUT Tim, no offence in anyway, because i hate to flame, its NOT you site. And i realize its your opinion.

-Danny
-Alphalpha
It's All in a Days Work for Me!

www.atlanticsystem.tk

--YES--We Will take over MS--

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You are correct. It is not my site. But that does not negate the facts as I have stated them above. I still believe it is common courtesy to notify a poster as to why his post his removed if he is not in violation of the rules, otherwise what is the point of having rules. Just leave it up to the moderators I guess to make their own rules....I am sorry, but I am not changing my opinion on this one. If it continues this way then I will just leave. I know that makes no difference to most of the people here, and so be it. I have my values and beliefs, just like everyone else, and so if those values are compromised or beliefs undermined then I will go somewhere where they are not.I don't think it is asking too much for an explanation on why these posts are being removed? And I won't change that opinion either. I enjoy coming here. It is a regular part of my day. And I will miss it. But I have certain principles and those outweigh this forum or any other place I feel is not in keeping with these principles. Enough said. You all can keep saying "so, this is not your forum", but that doesn't answer the basic question as to why it is being done this way. That is just taking the easy way out and not getting to the root of the problem or the reason for it happening.Tim
The Spur Line
http://tahunter.net
Appalachia RR - Midwest & Rocky Mountain RR - ADFRR Route

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Tim,Now don't do something foolish, IMHO, and leave the forums!!!!!
Although I do not always agree with you and Kevin I do look over the list of respondees to a thread and I always look to see if you and Kevins, and a number others as well, to see what the two of you have to lend to the conversation. I too, wish that the moderators would give a public reason why a thread is pulled directed to all of us in general!Remember that you and I are charter members of the "Old Curmudgeon Society" that requires that the two of us to lend a little panache to the adventures and perils of the forums ! I wish you Pace and Good Things!

Don Shepley-Chicago

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I hope Tim doesn't leave also. Some posts I understand why they are pulled, basically they have got out of control. But when someone goes crying to the moderators, he's being mean to me, is not a good reason. Kevin Arceneaux
gdapia

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>>This forum is not protected by the Constitution of the United States,
>>or any other document "guaranteeing" freedom of speach.>> And, if Nels determines that post(s) are inappropriate, he will delete
>> them without consulting anyone--including you.Certainly inspires me to hurry right out and send money to become a 'member' here.(btw, it's 'speech')

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It's beyond me how some people can complain about a "free" service that is provided to them....

Kyle H

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I agree with Kevin as well,There is a certain member ( Ryan007 ) who has has ALOT of posts deleted recently....I guess he's a pain in the a@# that I missed out on.Anyways there was one post he made with NO replies saying he wanted to try to get along with everybody.By the time I typed in my " short " post in how he may get along better with this crowd...and hit " POST MESSAGE "The post was gone....we are talking 2 minutes MAX !!That is not someone monitoring.......thats someone being vindictive over a particullar persons posts !!Oh well not my Forums to rule over I guessLater allTim Kent
NALW
"Power for You"PS: Yes I do realize that the above noted member is a "Troll" BUTThere was not a thing wrong with the post I am speaking of, unless in the 2 minutes from the time he posted it to when I replied to it...he went back in to edit it to be all curses and swearing !!

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Mr. Kent Sir,Civility, as practiced in Canada, is not generally part of the US American mentality today...send me the real estate section from your Sunday paper !Best Regards,

Don Shepley-Chicago

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>>>>>>or any other document "guaranteeing" freedom of speach.
>
>(btw, it's 'speech') That's one word that I have trouble with. I originally spelled speeach....but I *knew* that was wrong! Speech. Speak. That's where the confusion is from.Lawrence

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-16-02 AT 10:51 AM (EDT)

I dont think its a case of vindictiveness against anyone, and I don't think you can point to the first post in the thread as being the cause of posts being deleted. If a post seems to be leading to a flame war or is a steam off post you will most likely find it deleted.As Nels reminded me in an email this is a Hobby Forum. Think about that word hobby. Now think about the type of posts that were deleted. Hobby=Pleasure or should.This is indeed a private forum and it was created by Nels. It is a forum for train sim hobbyists to share things about train-sim and trains in general. I'm guilty of making posts that have nothing to do with trains here, when Nels wrote to me it was in reply to an email I wrote to him. He never chastised me about the posts that I've made that didn't have anything to do with either and he could have. He never chastised me in any way, but he did say somethings that I had forgotten, "People are supposed to be having fun here..." fun, pleasure, a number of us forgot that, I think.
~DR

"When you are with me I'm free
I'm careless, I believe
Above all the others we'll fly
This brings tears to my eyes
My Sacrifice"--Creed

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LAST EDITED ON Sep-16-02 AT 12:57 PM (EDT)

Sorry I couldn't think of a less harsh word than vindictivnessBesides it sounds kinda coolvindictivness.......Everyone now........VINDICTIVNESS.......Oh well back to lunch I guess......or more like " out to lunch " Tim Kent
NALW
"Power for You"

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Well, just to let you know Kevin, I never saw the post you was talking about (as I hardly wander into the Sound Forum) So, something must have been posted (or something started up and I didn't hear about it) which caused it to be deleted..Timbo,Yes, I was quick on the trigger on those Ryan007 posts, and for a reason, also with this "BCDEF" clone we had here. There is alot of things I tend to let go, but then again, there is only a limit one could have.As for the rest of the posts, if they contain stuff as what Ryan posted (not really pointing any fingers) and I or somebody else deletes them, what is the the purpose of getting mad because you want to see how far it will go, or how much of a fool that person will make of themselfs. Yes I have heard all of these, and while I can chuckle lightly at that, I'm only doing a volunteer job, at which I am trying my best to do on, but as I have said in other posts and whatever, one person can only do so much, especially with the amount of members we have on this forum. So, when school, my second job, and I get busy into the Evergreen Tracks stuff, I would rarely even be on the forum (meaning, I probably would just monitor or give up the keys back to Nels if need be) We all have a life (boy, this is getting long, sorry about that) and a game isn't one of them, and I have quickly found that out over the past 2 years.......anywho.. enough of me

Brian E. Bundridge
Founder - Evergreen Tracks
Seattle, Washington

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Brian, I don't or didn't have any problem with you removing those posts. They should have been removed, however it would have been nice if I was told it was being removed. When I came to find out what the response was to my post it was not there. Yes, I assumed that it had been removed....but why would it not be correct to post me a message in my box and say, hey, Tim, I removed the xxxx post because? It doesn't take that long Brian and I would know the reason for the removal. See, when you remove the idiots (and I use the term loosely here) posts, you also remove the posts from the non-idiots as well and that is what upsets us. Especially without so much as a notification. That is my only real beef here. I know you have other things to do, but there aren't that many posts that are being removed....not enough so that you couldn't have left a note for me, in my case, or Kevin in his, or Tim in his. This is the real point here. I would if I was moderator just as a courtesy to people I know are not the problem people here.That's all I have to say on that!Tim
The Spur Line
http://tahunter.net
Appalachia RR - Midwest & Rocky Mountain RR - ADFRR Route

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Brian,I am sorry.....I hope I din't come across as trying to tell you how to run the Forums..........It was not intended as that way.I just missed out on what led up to Ryan007's entire post history getting deleted !!Oh well there will be more I'm sureLaterTim Kent
NALW
"Power for You"

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There's a rather easy solution to the problem, and it's built into the forum software (just a matter of implimentation)Rather than vaporizing all posts, simply close them. We can all still read what was said but no replies may be made. If another thread is started REGARDING a closed thread, it's deleted.Another nifty feature is that up at the top of the closed thread, there's a line that whichever mod fills out stating the reason the thead was closed. In all my other boards this is done...and things run much more smoothly.Blake Harris
Fireman, Jefferson and Cypress Bayou Railroad

Vice Dean, Limbaugh Institute for Advanced Conservative Studies

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You are absolutely correct Blake, and that is all I am asking here. Excellent idea.Tim
The Spur Line
http://tahunter.net
Appalachia RR - Midwest & Rocky Mountain RR - ADFRR Route

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