Runaway Question

Last year in Ohio a CSX Freight full of dangerous chemicals started running out of the yard last year when a engineer put the two brakes on the freight in the yard and when he went to pull the last lever he pulled the throttle instead and then got off the train. Well a train was going headon with this runaway and they had to get off on a siding unhook their locos. They tried to catch it in a crew truck at one of the next crossings out from the yard but it was going too fast. So them locos from the train that pulled onto a siding. The engineer had to go in reverse and chase the runaway, a guy on the back of the loco telling him when to slow down, etc. They got the runaway stopped. What I'd like to know is how could you pull the throttle lever all the way on and get off the train and not notice the train was running away? Also with two of the train brakes already on how could the train even move?
Adam

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

RE: Runaway Question, John_Netzlof, Jul-30-02, 10:51 AM, (1) RE: Runaway Question, CRSD40, Jul-30-02, 11:06 AM, (2) RE: Runaway Question, LordTauk, Jul-30-02, 04:53 PM, (3) RE: Runaway Question, darkhorse2, Jul-30-02, 05:59 PM, (4) RE: Runaway Question, I_totally_love_trains, Jul-30-02, 09:07 PM, (5) RE: Runaway Question, Claude350, Jul-30-02, 09:23 PM, (6) RE: Runaway Question, I_totally_love_trains, Jul-31-02, 06:54 AM, (7) RE: Runaway Question, Claude350, Jul-31-02, 12:27 PM, (8) RE: Runaway Question, sixman, Aug-01-02, 12:52 PM, (11) RE: Runaway Question, kazba, Aug-01-02, 01:45 AM, (9) RE: Runaway Question, I_totally_love_trains, Aug-01-02, 08:13 AM, (10) RE: Runaway Question, lilman316, Aug-01-02, 09:19 PM, (12) RE: Runaway Question, sd90mac123, Aug-02-02, 04:06 AM, (13) RE: Runaway Question, I_totally_love_trains, Aug-02-02, 07:56 AM, (14) RE: Runaway Question, quaia, Aug-02-02, 09:52 AM, (15) RE: Runaway Question, I_totally_love_trains, Aug-02-02, 10:40 AM, (16)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

easily, picture it, the end of your shift, you wanna get home to sleep or what everm accidentally throw the throttle as your standing up to walk towards the door, you jump down from the big SD and head into the office...you come back out and get in your car, preoccupied with whatever you're going to be doing when you get home and off work...

Why is there air?
-Bill Cosby

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Jul-30-02 AT 11:07 AM (EDT)

Plus, with the two other brake applications on, It would take awhile for the engine to start moving, and if the brakes weren't on, the train most likely wouldn't have been catchable.------------------------------
Kyle Norek M.P. 76 on the NS Buffalo Line

Norfolk Southern Train 40T

Conrail Train ML-420

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

If you've ever had the chance to see a crew change, or MOW work being done locally to whatever railroad you are with (CSX, NS, UP, goes for everyone) or even on DVDs/VHS Tapes, when it's time to go home, its time to go home for railroad employees - aint no such thing as playing around. Long 10-11 hour day, 4-5 hours sleep before you got on your shift; you can imagine how eager these guys/gals are wanting to go home and rest before doing it all over again the next day. So you know, maybe accidently someone was a little off guard like someone said already and.. Im sure they have a basic shutdown, and checkyourself procedure but, accidents can happen - afterall, railroad employees are human too Yeah, your supervisors might have a hard time understanding you were tired and had an accident but hey :-PThats why there is extensive training, and who the employers seek as a good worker.. such as if you aren't a team worker or can't take long hours with miniumum rest before, dont count on being the first one looked for hired for a Class 1 Railroad - fortunently, in this day in age we have some laws that stretch train crews working hours to 12 hours max.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

2 brakes are no match for a locomotive ..it will just drag the train along with the brakes on..ever see a train go by and some cars have a very noticable thump-thump-thump in the wheels..thats a flat spot on the wheels and its sometimes caused by somebody missing a hand brake somewhere. and if i remember right the engineer had 20-30 years of service and it sounds like he tried to chase the train but couldn't catch it, most likely he wasnt a spring chicken and couldn't run very fast..no offense intended

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Thanks dudes! I bet it was hard for that engineer to run a train backwards at a fast speed!Adam

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

First of all what two brakes are you reffering to.If the train brakes are applied to the entire train it's not gonna move at all.The throttle can be wide open and the train will not move.Also with the engie brake applied it would be hard to get that train moving.Also when the crew leaves the train a sufficient amount of handbrakes have to be applied also.Most major railroads in the U.S. don't rely on the airbrakes to hold the train when the crew gets off.I'm a conductor with the NS and I can tell you that anytime we leave a train standing the airbrake are drawn down to full service and the engine brake applied.Then we apply a minimun of four handbrakes on the lead cars for added assurance......Thems the rules dude...

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I'm not sure what brakes they used. I only read this in Reader's Digest last year and don't remember that much of it. They thought perhaps the engineer was drunk but they didn't know at the time yet.Adam

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Don't believe in what the media prints.Half the time it's incorrect.The media still believs that the conductor drives the train.Back in the late 50's and early 60's when I was in kindergarten I knew that the engineer was the driver.I followed in my dad,grandfather,and uncle steps...

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Trains magazine also ran a short article right after it happened.Basicly, the train was doing some general switching, so the train brakes were bled down. The engineer was alone in the cab since the rest of the crew was doing some switching activities. Engineer noticed a switch ahead of them was not set correctly, so he deceided to change it.Set the engine brake and meant to set the dynamic brake, but shoved the throttle by mistake (article said he had 35 years with the railroad), and jumped down. When train started to move (full throttle quickly overcame the engine brakes) the engineer tried to get back on, but could not.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Hey Adam, I think I know which Digest article you're talking about. There were also a couple of news paper articles as well. Even TRAINS magazine had a blurb about it. (I don't remember all of the details or places so you'll have to bear with me on this.) The legist of the story is that the train was doing some switching along its route. The conductor/swtichman/brakeman was somewhere at the rear of the train handling the couplings, air hoses, etc. Shortly before the incident the engineer had to get out to line a switch ahead of him. Apparently he made a partial application of the brakes on the cars and then went to apply the independent brake as he's getting up. However, he instead move the throttle up to notch 8. He then got off the engine to move the switch and at that point saw the train moving. The engineer tried to reboard the train, but it took off fairly quickly and he was dragged about 60feet before he had to let go. He was able to quickly alert the dispatcher and the rest is history. Crews even tried to derail the train twice, but the engine flicked off the derailers like small rocks.
As to how the engine could take off like that without the engineer noticing is almost beyond comprehension considering that this buy has been an engineer for many many years. Call it a momentary lapse of reason, call it fatigue (which I believe had a contributing factor), whatever. I'm making some assumptions here since I've never been in the cab of an SD40, but I would imagine that it's fairly loud when you're running at notch 8. I'm also going to assume that when you move the throttle from idle to run 8, the engine doesn't immediately load up (okay you real engineers, help me out here) but that it loads up progressively to protect the traction motors. Thus, the engineer stopped the train with a partial application, as he's getting up to change the switch, he applies the throttle when he thought he was applying the independent, he gets off the train probably as the engine is working up to run 2 or 3 which was probably enough to overcome the partial application of the train brakes. The engineer, on his way to the switch stand probably now hears the engine behind him as it's up to run 4 or 5 and quickly building up speed. If he was tired, as some people here have mentioned, this realizationmight not have 'clicked' right away until it was too late.
This is just my view on the event and it's based on what I've read and seen. And yes, some of it is speculation on my part, but it would make the most sense to me. This is just one persons view point, we accept other points of view Matt

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I don't think they tried to derail the train. That train was full of very very dangerous chemicals. There was a train heading toward it so they had to pull off onto a siding, they uncoupled their locos and chased it backwards with a guy on the back walkway of the loco. They coupled up to the runaway and slowed it down with dynamic brakes.Adam

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I read the artical. the crewmember who was getting off applied the throttle instead of the loco break. He didn't see the train moving cuz he was behind schedule. that's why he didn't see it they were heading to get the relief crew which was a quarter mile way up the track they decided to go get em cuz they were stuck at a red and were tired and instead of hitting the brake bumped the throttle *I just read that artical like last month I have the copy the train was even a strealth paint CSX* so yeah I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure that's what happened I'll have to find that artical I know we have it here somewhere cuz i made my mom keep it.

lilman316
rail game is my game

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Well here's my dime's worth...First off, I'm a loco engineer. This never made sense to me from the first time they showed the unmanned sd40 going through a crossing at full throttle. When doing "flat switching" there usually aren't any air brakes on the cars, they are usually bled off. Sometimes depending on the amount of cars I'm handling say 30 heavy cars I have the conductor put air on five cars next to the engine to help me stop. The guy say he applied two brakes one of which was the engine brake. The other which should have been the automatic brake IF he had air on a few cars in this cut, dynamic brakes ONLY to slow the cut down to 3 mph but never the engine and dyno at the same time. As far as an sd40 with 20 or 30 cars and only a few of them being loaded: when you crack the throttle from idle to run 8 on these things you get an immediate response, they load quickly, even the engine brakes wont hold them. Take it from me, applying an engine brake and then mistaking the throttle for another brake, no, I dont think so, even your grandmother would know that it wasnt a brake.....And theres is no way that he could have cracked the throttle to run 8 with engine brakes on and got off of engine PROPERLY and thrown a switch. It just doesn't add up. I'm sure there's another engineer and some conductors in this place that knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

In the first place no one knows if they were doing switching unless there's a engineer or employee that was at that yard that day that is here!Adam

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I definitely agree with you. Just the sound of the locomotive instantly tells you you have throttled up.Another question. Can the engineer even throttle up til 8 if the train is not moving? I mean, here in Milan we have some older trams (but most of then are actually of this class ). When they are starting to move, if the driver throttles up more than a couple of notches, the electrical motor protection instantly cuts power off to prevent damage. When this happens, the driver has to throttle down to 0 and start all over again. Only very new trams have a newer system which automatically graduates current to the engine, but it doesn't give power if brakes are not completely released, doors are not properly shut, etc. I think that for trains there must be something similar. Isn't it?Umberto

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Can you keep a train throttle lever at one spot without keeping your hand on it?Adam

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.