Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again

This one takes the cake. I was in town watching trains. Now it was about 10:30. The train had came and I was standing (get this) by the
old CottonBelt depot, only 1 BLOCK away from the police station. The
police station is in plain sight of where I be. So the train goes by, I am videoing, and the engineer gave me a strange look. So the next train, a BNSF run through stops at the signal. And lo and behold
here comes the city police. He asks me what am I doing, and I tell him and he gives me a funny look. I show him my video. And I tell him what I know about trains. Then he says how do I know so much why do you study them. I started to get mad there. He goes on and on, so
I am keeping my cool. So he notices my screens in my car playing. I have a DVD player and three screens in my car and a expensive sound system. So he looks at what im watching and lo and behold again its a DVD from Pentrex. God, he asks how did I get it, and that only railroads are only supposed to have them. He insists that I stole it.
I am furious now, but keeping cool still. Well lookee here, here comes back up. They search my car, and they search me. I said you have no right. And he says "so what". Then he says he's gonna have to take my tape. That set it off. When we got through cussing at each other, it was two trains backed up now. I said that I am going to file harassment charges and he laughs. He called me a young punk with nothing better to do. I am about ready to shoot him now. He said for a few dollars he's gonna hit me in the mouth because my front 8 teeth are silver. That incident right there has made me severly slack down on my train watching, because if it happens again im going to jail. Im not biting my tongue next time. All I wanna do is watch trains. And for you non beleivers, this is Arkansas (southern arkansas at that) and racism and rebel flags still exist. But from that point on, I might get out once a week. Talk about the wrong place, wrong time, and wrong color.

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RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, Transcon, Jul-16-02, 10:32 PM, (1) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, I_totally_love_trains, Jul-16-02, 10:36 PM, (2) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, I_totally_love_trains, Jul-16-02, 10:40 PM, (3) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, I_totally_love_trains, Jul-16-02, 10:42 PM, (4) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, Lone_Gunman_SG, Aug-06-02, 11:00 AM, (28) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, TrainTrak5000, Jul-16-02, 10:43 PM, (5) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, LordTauk, Jul-16-02, 10:53 PM, (6) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, cdntrains, Jul-16-02, 10:54 PM, (7) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, CSXFan, Jul-16-02, 10:54 PM, (8) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, kwk100, Jul-17-02, 02:31 AM, (9) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, McDeth, Jul-17-02, 05:18 AM, (10) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, Gixxer86g, Jul-17-02, 08:25 AM, (11) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, Gixxer86g, Jul-17-02, 08:27 AM, (12) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, I_totally_love_trains, Jul-17-02, 09:01 AM, (13) More details, ssw_96, Jul-17-02, 05:19 PM, (14) RE: More details, Transcon, Jul-17-02, 06:54 PM, (15) RE: More details, Lone_Gunman_SG, Aug-06-02, 11:03 AM, (29) RE: More details, rdfox, Jul-17-02, 07:51 PM, (16) RE: More details, ssw_96, Jul-17-02, 10:00 PM, (17) RE: More details, cbnoble, Aug-05-02, 12:03 PM, (24) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, McDeth, Aug-06-02, 06:30 AM, (26) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, West_Coast_Railroader, Jul-18-02, 03:13 AM, (18) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, bcdef, Jul-18-02, 04:28 AM, (19) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, leesome1226, Jul-18-02, 09:11 AM, (20) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, Splain, Jul-18-02, 10:03 AM, (21) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, CRSD40, Jul-18-02, 05:43 PM, (22) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, activitamin, Aug-05-02, 10:53 AM, (23) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, LordTauk, Aug-05-02, 01:06 PM, (25) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, georgi55, Aug-06-02, 08:11 AM, (27) RE: Wrong Place At The Wrong Time Again, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, Aug-06-02, 12:10 PM, (30)

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My advice: Get an attorney and sue the hell out of that police station. They have no brains!!! That's what I call paranoia thinking you're a terrorist!------------------------------------------------------------I'll never let go of the railroad that inspired me to involved with trains, the Union Pacific!

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I'm not a terrorist or anything but while we're on this topic I'm really surprised that terrorists haven't used a train to attack anything yet.Adam

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Geez them sound like real jerky police! At one view though it's better than the police around the area I live in, my police don't do crap about stuff they should do things about!You don't watch them DVD screens while your driving do ya because that can be dangerous, don't wanna see you getting hurt! Adam

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Geez them sound like real jerky police! At one view though it's better than the police around the area I live in, my police don't do crap about stuff they should do things about!
You don't watch them DVD screens while your driving do ya because that can be dangerous, don't wanna see you getting hurt!
Can someone tell me what a DVD is from Pentrex and what's wrong with them that the police think bad of you for watching them?Adam

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Perhaps next time if you bring your computer and show them MSTS they will cut you some slack!

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Some people are real jerks!

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Pentrex? What is that? Just asking. Never heard of it.Anyway, the engineer on the first train gave you a "weird look", could there have been any chance he could have radioed you into the local police? I mean.. I wouldn't see why a train crew would bother, especially since you can see someone has a video camera - and really, aslong as you aren't doing something bad train crews generally dont care, literally they dont care if you're there aslong as you aren't in anyway in danger of getting hurt. They probably see Railfains a lot, and ya know.. these conductors and engineers can probably understand them since they were probably doing the same thing when they were our ages (young guys) :-PThe second train ran a red? What? lolBy the way, I was in a situation like yours, but the outcome came out a little bit better, I can feel sorry for your trouble with railfanning.. again, things changed and people tend to ruin it for the best of us so dont let it ruin your day. Just because you had a problem with the police, pick a new spot to railfan? A little farther away from the police station? Little hidden?I know being on railroad property is sorta considered against the law and what-not for safety and everything but I've never had any employee of CSX train crew or not ever call their police or local police on me for railfanning. I even had an MOW Foreman tell me to "Becareful and dont hurt myself" when I was video tapping his parked equipment on a siding. I mean, most railroad employees literally dont get in your business unless they see you screwing off or something. Its kinda weird, during the school year middle schoolers always walk the tracks home, not one of them or any of them got talked at by the police or the crossing guard. I can think of a situation that could arrise, you see a bunch of rocks on a rail and you walk up to knock them off and someone (CSX or Police) walks up from behind you saying, "So kid, you planning on tresspassing and damage some propery at the same time?" or what not. It's nice of you to do that, but if you see something like that and there's a lot of activity going on, you should just leave it alone for your own liability - a locomotive will just pulverize small rocks :-P, because sometimes police officers seem to think the worst of you, not always but since they dont know you and railfans are kinda looked as.. yeah.Just my 2 cents

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LAST EDITED ON Jul-16-02 AT 10:57 PM (EDT)

OMG I've had enough of this.... They complain that public confidence in them should exist but they treat the "good" ones horribly and they seem to give the "real" criminals MORE rights!! (at least in Canada they do.. ridiculous.. (hey, if you can rehab, then rehab, but in this day in age, we CAN'T perfectly so why do we still give the REAL criminals more rights than the average upstanding citizen!?) Some police also wonder why people will take the criminal justice system into their own hands!? Do they still wonder why!?!?My friend and I can't wait to make a 'police revolution' out of this and give the good general public what they look for and deserve in their police dept. NOT power tripping so and so's. I'd say take that police officer to the tribunal or whatever you have in the states. And I wish I could be there to back you up and help get that corrupt cop out of society.Canada has the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and they wouldn't be able to get away with that let me tell you.. BUT the Charter has its flaws too --> almost gives convicted criminals too many rights. (just my opinion) (I guess you can't have everything you want)But I'd have to say that some cops are stuck on stereotypes, as they pickup the same "looking/acting" people day-in day-out. But hey, there are still quite a few good police officers out there. And just be aware of how the media can twist things around too. Those biases have to do with the availability and representative heuristics.Sorry to hear you had to go through that though. I believe I heard that 5 % of all cops are rogue/corrupt. I wouldn't give up on all of them yet, but some certainly have to get their ACT TOGETHER!!EDIT: We have a right to stand on a public sidewalk!! Stand up for railfanning!! cdntrains "must be trains in the blood"
http://www.frograil.com/gifs/gifs.htm

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Dude that sucks, do like Transcon said and get an attorney and sue the police station.

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So the cops are allowed to threaten you, but you can't threaten them? What is up with that, what makes them all high and mighty? Heck if he said he was going to punch me in the mouth, I would have told him that if he hits me for no reason, I'm going to kick his a** around the moon!!! Just have to make sure that I keep the camera rolling to record the dialouge incase he arrests me for threatening a police officer! ARRGH!! Some people just need a swift kick!This is kwk100 and I'm 10-10 on the side..

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I agree with u about the haressment, but comon, if you saw a strange guy videotaping what you did as an everyday job, wouldn't you get a bit nervous?

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Could have been the cop was a complete idiot,or he was busting your balls.I know lots of cops who are railfans and lots that are just ballbusters.

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Also Mcdeth,railfans videotaping is an everyday thing when you work for a railroad.Some railroaders just don't like railfans.

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The law is that if your beside the railroad tracks it's trespassing on railroad property but I've watched trains right beside the tracks many of times and they never cared but I never watched them beside a police station either. Maybe this was a bunch of jerks in this train crew and since they saw a police station near you they had someone to call and someone to get there right away.Adam

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Well I thank you for your support but:
1. Trying to sue will do no good. It has been tried by a freind of mines for harassment and it was no good.
2. I always video when I railfan. Everyone in the area knows what i'm doing when im there.
3. I was 20ft away from the tracks so I was not tresspassing. The property I was on is OWNED BY THE CITY, WHICH BOUGHT IT FROM THE UP.
And the UP is mad because they were made to move their vehicles elsewhere during a MOW blitz going on around the area.
4. I railfan at anytime. I've been out at 5a.m. and I have been out as late as 1a.m. filming trains in well lit areas.
This guy had ate a bad meal or something. And for you people wondering, no I do not look at DVD's while driving, and yes Pentrex makes DVD's. The ones I have are Goin To Kansas City and CSX Mountain Sub. They are both good. So now when I railfan I go out of town or sit in a different place to avoid this again. Well this is Arkansas so expect the unexpected.

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Arkansas? I feel sorry for you! Their roads SUCK! I remember going across Arkansas on I-40 and I-30 and I couldn't believe the quality of roads!!! They must've made it out of TOILET PAPER!------------------------------------------------------------I'll never let go of the railroad that inspired me to involved with trains, the Union Pacific!

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Actually theire roads arent that bad, belive me. Ive driven through the Ozarks.

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If you got the incident on tape, even if only the audio portion, I recommend you contact your local prosecutor's office to press charges against the cops in question; the threat to punch you was a pretty clear case of assault. Prosecutors do tend to look down upon that sort of thing...RDF

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Yeah rdfox, I kick myself in the ass. I remember that I turned off my camera. Why I dont know. But that incident has made me tune down on my railfanning. And Transcon, I know the roads are bad. Hey they have a construction project going on on I 40 all across arkansas. It is a mess. People getting killed. Mostly from rear enders, 18 wheeler vs cars. 20 people have died since Jan on I 40 because of congestion. The worse I remember is a 18 wheeler hits a truck from behind which pushes it into another 18 wheeler reducing the truck to only 6 ft long. Not good. But the state troopers are steeping up now, and even have helicopters too. Last week they issue 3,400 citations and 80% were for speeding. People drive crazy down here.

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SSW,You're absolutely right in that suing will do no good. For harassment, you really have to be able to show a pattern, which doesn't seem to exist.What you DO need to do, however, is to go down and talk with whoever the sargeant on duty was at the time that this happened. If you calmly explain the event to the SOD, he will be the person most likely to make something happen. You'll never find out what the SOD does to the officer, but getting a stern lecture from an SOD can scare the John Wayne out of any young cop.This can be a very frustrating approach, because you think, and the cops will tell you, that nothing was done. Reality is that the SOD will have a long talk with weenie-cop and next time he will definitely think twice before he does something stupid again.If you're interested in how to approach a conversation with the SOD email me at chris@cbnoble.com and I'll give you some pointers to use in the conversation. I've done this successfully a couple of times (other issues, but same concept) and have never had a problem with the cops I reported. They may not like that you talked to their Sargeant, but they will respect you for working the system, rather than running off screaming to the courts.Let me know if you're interested in using this approach.Chris
chris@cbnoble.com

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dont get me wrong, ive been around trains my whole life, so I know a thing or two about what goes on around there.

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That is truly unfortunate to hear.
It is now obvious that we still have police officers who seem to think they are above the law and these rogue officers are giving police a bad name.
I think they should use sensitivity when asking someone what they are doing,especially railfans,because a railfan wouldn't be afraid to say what they are doing.But to use race as a reason to harrass someone just isn't right.We are no threat and actually can be a deterrant to those who may want to cause any damage to rail equipment in that area.I can understand the notion of being video-taped but when I tape I don't zoom in of the workers all I want is the train.I guess 9/11 has gotten everyone spooked when the see someone hanging around certain areas....does it hurt to nicely ask the person what they are doing.It woouldn't bother me if I was checked out...once while railfanning in the parking lot at the West coast Express Port moody Station their security came around and aked what i was doing and I told him and he did tell me it is technically private property but didn't tell me to leave and he said he sees alot of people like me around.
But I was allowed to continue.
On the same rail line I've had the CP rail crews wave to me while taping and taking pictures of the trains they are driving.I had the local police drive by and I was watch and expecting them to turn around and come and question me,but no they continued on.
I guess it depends where you are in relation to the tracks.I'm never happy in one spot I'm always trying to find a better spot or just a different spot to get different looks and angles.I'm always trying to find a better location one that is away from the road and slightly secluded but not in a location where I'd be in danger or not in a location where it wouldn't look suspicious.

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why not move to nebraska?
good roads no cogestion!
and around here i see people by the Up tracks all the time filming and its in the middle of nowhere so no police stations!
some of the best rail fottage on the UP is in Nebraska!
like listen to transcon he knows what he is talkin about! PEACE Love Freedom

Peace OUT

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Now in noway am I trying to condone that Police officers actions, I'm just trying to explain why they do it.A few friends and myself were railfanning in North Jersey on Tuesday. It had been a great day with plenty of trains on another line before we moved over to the CSX River Line which had been closed the whole day because of trackwork. We were expecting the line to brake loose and see a lot of trains in a short period of time so we had dug in for the long haul. We postioned ourselves at CP7, a place where the mainline and 2 passing sidings come together again. Some people had camping chairs out while others like myself where sitting on a piece of panel track. I had my car antenna out so all was good. Suddenly a CSX cop roars up and asks us if we know that we are trespassing on CSX property and we say no and leave, We honestly didn't thing we weren't because it is right along a public parking lot. We then moved down to CP10, a place where the main becomes 3 passing sidings. We were there for about an hour and saw a couple of trains when a women in a leather coat came walking over. Her first question was "What side of the train does the trainmaster ride on?" After hearing that, seeing what she was wearing and her smell, she was obiously a hooker who was drunk and probably on some drugs. It was sad to watch but I was really worried about her jumping in front of the next train in a state where she couldn't really make good decisions. Thankfully she didn't and all was well.I add this, reciently here in NYC a women laid down on some subway tracks for 6 minutes and was then hit by a Subway train. She sued the city for damages and eventually won 14 millon dollars with the verdict saying that the city knew she was there.Although Police officers are some times out of line in this case, and what they did was competely wrong, they have a very tough job. I remember a quote from some CP(D&H) friends a couple of years ago when I was visiting their yard. The man said that they had 10 police officers to patrol some 1,000 miles of track. Just by looking at the numbers, that job is insermoutable. It doesn't make it any easier when somebody gets hurt and then sues and wins a lot of money which causes the RR to crackdown some more.Being an RR policeman has to be a really tough job, and I certainly wouldn't want to do it.Chris Lee
Train Artisan

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LAST EDITED ON Jul-18-02 AT 10:20 AM (EDT)

Well i've seen a guy run in front of a train butt naked screaming he was god and saying to stop the train... well all I can say is he must have not been god, it wasn't any pretty sight. So this must be why some railroad police are so scict.

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But videotaping the train would not be any indication that you were going to commit suicide.------------------------------
Kyle Norek M.P. 76 on the NS Buffalo Line

Norfolk Southern Train 40T

Conrail Train ML-420

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Hi,
you should not get angry with cop,but INSTEAD get hold of the guy who recruits jerks&sob as a cop&shoot the guy who recruited this mentally retarded scum,RIGHT BETWEEN HIS B..................S

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I learned you have to be a little aware of your area when you're railfanning and know what's going into, just dont like run up to the close to the ballast to see the front end rounding a curve without looking around first, as an example - it sounds kinda unlawful to sneak around when you're railfanning but this day in age you kinda have to be a little more consealed and aware I guess you could say. I always take objects to back up my story, binoculars, camera, maybe a railroad t-shirt I'll have on? Something to proove you aren't screwing around or doing something bad besides watching a train. You know, there's not a lot of teenagers who like to watch trains so you have to be mindful about how the officer is thinking when he sees you standing there, if you encounter one and if you're a teen... maybe it might be a little different if you were a little olderAlso unless you railfan the same area a lot like I do, the normal crews that run wont know what you're doing, they dont know if you're holding a BB gun or a camcorder in your hand - so dont feel bad if they dont wave at you or by some chance they call local police or railroad police if there are any in that area to check you out.I heard quite a few times dispatchers contacting different trains on the NEC to warn crews about people walking or people in the area of their property Unfortunently it comes down to railfanning as a risk depending on the person's mood and personality who comes up and ask "What're you doing?"

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Another example of how good people suffer because of few iditos and jerks that commit crimes
Georgi

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LAST EDITED ON Aug-06-02 AT 12:11 PM (EDT)

the place I railfan has a cop station not more that 50 yards from the location I usually stand, cops all the time drive by and dont take a second look at me. And I usually go out around 9-10 PM. The only time I've been worried about the cops when I've been railfanning was when a cop pulled up along side of us and stoped and I guess was watching me, we left after the first train left, and we stayed, but thats the only time thats ever happened.As for the engineers, I'd say 90 percent of them wave, the others seem busy and dont look out(or I dont see them)
I hope that ur issue gets resolved quickly, and that you win. I guess the best course of action is to file a harresment complaint. (alot of those are filed against cincy cops, lol)

Greg
HighV0ltge - AIM/AOL
gregoryis411@hotmail.com

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