Crazy Switching Maneuvers III - The Dutch Drop

All this nuttiness started with Darkfrye asking if it was possible to do a "Flying Shunt", (American, "Flying Switch") maneuver in MSTS. After I rationally explained why it was impossible, Ron Picardi comes along with a devilish suggestion:
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/12588.html
So I tried it, and son-of-a-gun, it IS possible to do the flying switch using some of the quirks of automatic switches;
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/12611.html
I even did it with steam;
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/12650.htmlThen oldrailfan comes along to incite me further with an even crazier maneuver, the flip side of the flying switch known as the "Dutch Drop".
The dutch drop requires running ahead of the car(s) past a trailing point switch, stopping, resetting the switch, and backing thru it to get out of the way of the oncoming cars. Obviously the collision hazard with the dutch drop is even more likely than the flying switch!
First few times I tried it on level ground, it ended in collision, so I decided to try it on a downhill grade so the cars would coast slower, but for a longer distance.
Starting on Switchback Bridge over Port Ogden, it's downhill all the way into Johnsburg, straight into the engine shed if you forget to change the first switch at the bottom. No need for throttle, just release the brakes and it starts rolling.
This was the first time trying this on a grade, so I uncoupled almost right away at 10 mph.
Not going very fast, topped out at 45 or so, thought for a minute the cars had stalled.
Nope, here they come, still going about 10-15 mph. Plenty of time to stop and back into the other track to get clear.
This is all flat here, but they have enough momentum to coast past the switch, only slowing at the wye.
As requested by oldrailfan, one "Dutch Drop" completed.
That was actually pretty easy with the long downgrade from Switchback Bridge, the half dozen times I tried it on level track I just couldn't get the timing or something. So those are the new challenges, do it on level track, then do it with steam.

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CRAZY SWITCHING MANEUVERS III - THE DUTCH DROP [View All], sniper297, 02:50 PM, Sep-22-02, (0) RE: CRAZY SWITCHING MANEUVERS III - THE DUTCH DROP, parrotheada1a, Sep-22-02, 03:20 PM, (1) RE: CRAZY SWITCHING MANEUVERS III - THE DUTCH DROP, sniper297, Sep-22-02, 07:00 PM, (2) RE: CRAZY SWITCHING MANEUVERS III - THE DUTCH DROP, IcyFire, Sep-22-02, 07:15 PM, (3) RE: CRAZY SWITCHING MANEUVERS III - THE DUTCH DROP, sniper297, Sep-22-02, 10:16 PM, (4) RE: CRAZY SWITCHING MANEUVERS III - THE DUTCH DROP, GaryG, Sep-22-02, 11:51 PM, (5) RE: CRAZY SWITCHING MANEUVERS III - THE DUTCH DROP, novelty, Sep-25-02, 11:48 PM, (6)

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No wonder this sh*t is frowned on by the brotherhood! Sweet move. Kind of tough in HO scale though. Had to try it 10 times before I got the timing right.

Certified B&M nut!

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Hee-hee, well, it was easier for me in HO. Primarily that was my Dad, I'm #3 out of 7 kids, and we all had at least a passing interest in trains in our DNA from the old man. But like this forum and anywhere else, we all had different interests, mine was switching & peddler freights, my big brother liked long heavy freights, most of the others just ran passenger trains around and around. My Dad was more interested in the tinkering aspect than actual operations tho, so while my big brother and I were building track and scenery and doing double saw-bys, Dad was quartering drivers, installing Sagami can motors, replacing horn-hooks with Kadee knuckle couplers with self centering springs, replacing stock wheels with RP-25s, adding weights and balancing. When he got done you could back a string of 50 cars twisting thru a nasty section of #4 turnouts with no derailments, or do a flying switch at a scale 10mph, the cars rolled that smoo-oo-oothly. We even had a hump yard, and the cars were so well weighted, sprung and balanced that the illusion of 100 tons of momentum from those little bitty cars was almost eerie to watch.
The physics gurus over in the loco design forum have been trying to get this sim something like that, trouble is they tend to forget these things have to operate within MSTS, and allowances have to be made for that. Braking values in the .eng file, for example, the default GP38 uses MaxBrakeForce ( 200kN )
Stop on a crosstie give ya 9 spikes change, rather unrealistic.Last physics update I played with used MaxBrakeForce ( 113kN )
Which didn't work very well for me since I use a joystick that puts out keystroke commands, and MSTS doesn't respond to keyboard inputs nearly as fast as using the mouse on the inside cab controls. So I compromised and use
MaxBrakeForce( 170kN ), which gives a realistic feel without running halfway to Kansas after I start applying brakes. I'm working on a PO&N 0-8-0 stolen from John Fowlis' O&WV 0-8-0, and I'm totally destroying the physics, trying to add an independent brake based on the direct control loco brake from the GP-38. If you can't switch with a switcher, there ain't much point to it, so realism has to bend a little for playability.
The only thing I see that might have a bearing on this in a .wag file is the line:Friction (
100N/m/s 1 -1mph 0 1
5.1N/rad/s 1 -1rad/s 0 1All the ones I've looked at so far are identical, possibly changing some of those values might make the cars coast more realistically.

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only you, sniper would be crazy enough

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Hey, I can't help it, these guys keep egging me on!
Besides, Da Bears blew it big time today, 20-0 halftime lead over the Saints and they end up losing 29-23. It's not that I have anything against Fozzy, but he is, after all, a bear. Bearing that in mind, I couldn't bear not to bear down on him once again by trying a dutch drop with the K-36.
This time let's try with 6 cars. And a caboose! }>
Usually a bear to get to the top with a small steamer, but this little jewel has some serious torque.
Bearly start rolling down the grade, uncouple and accelerate away from the train.
This time I took my time coming down, bearly exceeded 20mph since the cars are rolling so slowly.
Plenty of time to stop and back onto the other switch exit.
All the time in the world.
I even had time to get a screenshot from the other side!
(Yawn) and here I thought this was gonna be exciting.
Gotta try it with the front coupler now, that oughtta be a challenge. Or uncouple and follow the cars down the grade to clock them, see how fast they're going.
Well, so much for that, definitely gotta see if this is possible on a level stretch of track, having the cars rolling slowly down a grade takes all the fun out of it.

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So much crazyness!I know the cause,it's the full moon!
.or.
you're bored
.or.
killing time while we wait for MSTS II (we can hope)
.or.
it's true, we are crazy
.or.Oh, Oh, I've caught it too, compiling a stupid list like this?MSTS - As Real As It Gets GaryG

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novelty
Charter Member

Sep-25-02, 11:48 PM (EDT)

6. "RE: CRAZY SWITCHING MANEUVERS III - THE DUTCH DROP"
In response to message #0

Hello sniper297,
Well,I've just tried the Dutch Drop and let me tell you,It Was Nearveracking!!!
I nearly mised my train comeing into the siding!
Then,I decided to track my train.
I found that my train reached a top speed of 25 mph.
But,all in all,it was fun.
Novelty.

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