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Reading Topic #6678
CoonskinMember since Aug-1-02 · 873 posts
Like I said earlier this week, it's getting to where I want to learn to build routes in the worst way. Gave it some more thought, and about to decide that since good ol' "lfriddle" is working on the FS Sub for me... I mean us ()... what about pursuing a completely different route/theme for myself? That immediately brought to fore this question:Would it be a prototype line, or my own freelanced line? Mulling that one over, I'm leaning toward freelanced: My former HO model railroad theme, the bankrupt "Kansas City & Gulf Railway" circa 1969. If I did this, I would build with RE a portion of the fictional KC&G called the "Ozark Sub". I figure the sub would be about 100 miles in length to be in keeping with the length of a sub "back then".Now, having said that, let me ask 'bout 'dem der DEM's:Part of me thinks it would be cool to DEM the area that I would like to shoot a KC&G line through, accepting the challenges of putting a line through actual terrain models, and in so doing, end up with a fictional route based on real terrain contours. A model RR friend of mine termed this approach "maptual" (a play on the word "factual") in our model RR days. I think this could be rewarding in that when I run a train on the route, it would appear LIKE IT WOULD HAVE, had there been an actual KC&G.The other part of me thinks perhaps I should just lay the route out on the flat tiles that default RE supplies, and then shape/contour to my liking. Seems to me that would be easier initially, allow more freedom, and so forth.Given that I'm essentially completely and totally IGNORANT about route building, can some of you with route experience share some input concerning the pros and cons of both/either approach? Your input can help me to know what I would be up against, and which obstacles I would prefer to surmount.I would really appreciate it.Andre "Coonskin" Ming
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GMOF3ACharter Member · 422 posts
RE: 'Bout 'dem der DEM's... (Long post)
..get ya some terrain going there Andre..you won't be dis-appointed...but it's all up to you..what would you like to do the best?...
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robertreedyCharter Member · 573 posts
RE: 'Bout 'dem der DEM's... (Long post)
LAST EDITED ON Sep-29-02 AT 02:57 PM (EDT)
Andre, to elaborate on the short conversation from yesterday. I have an idea that I wished I had known or thought about before I started my route. Your term 'maptual' is the key. If you choose not to DEM, in place of putting your track on the flat tiles .. try looking at a 'topo' map or just go through and make your hills, valleys, etc. the way you think you want them before ever laying the track.On the last couple of additions to the ADF, I've done it this way and it is truly enjoyable. You still have to re-mold the scenery occasionally, but it is like having the best of both worlds for a fictional route and I think it comes out looking slightly more realistic.Just a thought
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CoonskinMember since Aug-1-02 · 873 posts
RE: 'Bout 'dem der DEM's... (Long post)
Thanks for the early input, guys...Paul: I don't know which I'd rather do yet. I "THINK" I'd like to DEM it. Simply because I would get to start with terrain that is as accurate as the DEM system allows. This in turn would be a mental boost for me because I would know the terrain and locale is "right" as I work on the route. This "rightness" may also be an "added value" reward feature once the route is far enough along to enjoy operating on portions of it. That is, the "Ahhh Factor" could be pushed up the scale when running trains as I think... "so THAT'S what it would have looked like!"I say the above with a caveat though: IF I go the DEM route, then won't I face the same challenges actual railroad surveyors would have faced in trying to conquer some of the most formidable mountains the Ozarks have to offer? Robert:Great point! In this case, I'm way ahead of you! In the past, I poured over topo's of the region when building part of the KC&G's Ozark Sub in HO scale. During that time, it APPEARED one could punch a line north using the Little Piney and Big Piney river courses out of the Clarksville, Arkansas area. However, the line would have to pass over serveral east/west ridges in its north/south trek... and farther north of Clarksville, the terrain really gets tough. This range of the Ozarks was quite forbidding to rail exploration "back when". However, I figured if railroads could conquer the more rugged Alleghanies/Appalachians... then SURELY a line could tame this portion of the Ozarks. At least, that was my thinking.IF I go the DEM route, wouldn't I need to first plot my proposed route via the topo's so I can know which DEM's to download? Thanks again for the input fella's. Some of you others with experience with either approach jump in here and share your thoughts/experiences with us.Andre Ming
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KipCharter Member · 400 posts
RE: 'Bout 'dem der DEM's... (Long post)
Another advantage by using DEMS for a "maptual" route is distant mountain tiles (LO-Tiles). Really does enhance the outlook of a route.As for downloading the proper DEMS, finding the area you need isn't that tough. If you scale in the maps (Mapmart is where I get my DEMS) and follow the particular rail route just download those DEMS. Each section has a name. They either come in 30m DEMS (low resolution) or 10m DEMS (high resolution). 10m DEMS are quite big between 1.5meg to over 2meg apiece. 30m are alot smaller between 150k to 200k. The vector maps used to find the area are the same name as the DEMS. Normally, but not always, the route you choose will be or should be in the RGE. Finding them can be a pain, but always note the coordinates of where they are to help you find the spot you need. DEMEX programs is fairly easy to use and the DEMEX website has a tutorial on how to use it. Go to Mapmart www.mapmart.com Go to the state you need.Zoom in the area of interest and see if you can find the "tracks" of the route you intend. Note the coordinates. Write down the name of the "quads" or squares that cover the route. Download them (they're free). You're gonna need DEMEX or Microdem to put them together. There is a help section in DEMEX that can instruct you on how to proceed. Knowing how to use RGE will of course help. If you have more questions, come on back. Kip 3DTS Route Developer The Priest River Railroad"...it's so fictional, it's almost real" PRRR WesiteComing this fall: PRRR's Hoodoo Pass Route
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homer13jMember since Sep-25-02 · 14 posts
RE: 'Bout 'dem der DEM's... (Long post)
My first route was done on flat tiles. Fun, but for the most part not very realistic. I'm sure others could have done much better.Second route used DEM data. Much better.With that under my belt, I decided to do a fictitious route following the Allegheny River between Kiski Jct. and Warren, PA. Used some real features like the wye bridge in Oil City, but most of the route is freelanced. It's been very rewarding.DEM data is the way to go.
