Previous Topic | Next Topic

The following was observed somewhere on the Columbia Gorge Route earlier today. Engineers still trying to figure out what was going on. Some UFO activity was observed in the area...


Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route -- 20%

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge [View All], calr, 11:24 PM, Sep-28-02, (0) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, GaryG, Sep-28-02, 11:28 PM, (1) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, Transcon, Sep-28-02, 11:58 PM, (2) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, lenglel, Sep-29-02, 00:29 AM, (6) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, robertreedy, Sep-28-02, 11:58 PM, (3) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Sep-29-02, 00:04 AM, (5) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, Coonskin, Sep-29-02, 00:02 AM, (4) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, davidbeach, Sep-29-02, 03:00 PM, (7) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Sep-29-02, 07:30 PM, (8) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, Sinclair, Sep-30-02, 09:21 AM, (9) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Sep-30-02, 10:55 AM, (10) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, Macster, Sep-30-02, 02:07 PM, (11) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Sep-30-02, 02:24 PM, (12) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, DRGWK36, Oct-01-02, 12:35 PM, (16) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Oct-01-02, 02:17 PM, (18) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, davidbeach, Sep-30-02, 04:04 PM, (13) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Sep-30-02, 05:12 PM, (14) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, davidbeach, Oct-01-02, 01:41 AM, (15) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, enocell, Oct-01-02, 12:40 PM, (17) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, davidbeach, Oct-01-02, 03:27 PM, (19) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, Sinclair, Oct-04-02, 10:08 AM, (20) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Oct-04-02, 11:06 AM, (21) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, davidbeach, Oct-04-02, 03:33 PM, (22) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, Sinclair, Oct-04-02, 04:06 PM, (23) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, davidbeach, Oct-05-02, 02:43 AM, (27) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Oct-04-02, 04:40 PM, (24) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, rjdiii, Oct-04-02, 04:50 PM, (25) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, davidbeach, Oct-05-02, 02:35 AM, (26) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, JohnCS, Oct-05-02, 11:14 AM, (28) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, calr, Oct-05-02, 03:05 PM, (29) RE: Strange Things Happening on Columbia Gorge, JohnCS, Oct-05-02, 03:29 PM, (30)

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

HiIs it just CSX trying to sink BNSF?GaryG

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Or perhaps CSX is incompatible with BNSF tracks?------------------------------------------------------------I'll never let go of the railroad that inspired me to be involved with trains, the Union Pacific!John Ekhoff
14 yr. old Train Sim Reskinner from Abilene, Texas.A member of the Yonder Locomotive Works.

AOL IM - FlightSimPilot02
E-mail - FlightSimPilot02@aol.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Oh, I think I know this one. Is that last week's track database
with next week's terrain?

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal, if you know what is causing this .. just ignore this reply, but if you don't, it looks like you've saved world changes and not terrain or the world file and .tdb are out of synch. I've had this happen a couple of times and ended going back a day or two in backups to get it back to normal.

RobertR .. ADF-M&RM at http://www.adfrr.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yes, I know exactly what is causing it. It is not a bug or corruption. That's all I am going to say. BTW, that's not the BNSF tracks. It's the UP tracks on the South side.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route -- 20%

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Been there, done that! In my case it was MP3. I had forgotten to delete the old USA2.trk file, so MSTS tried to use the old grades with the new world tiles! Didn't work.Been having fun in RE or sumpin' and messed up your .trk files??Andre

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Don't know how you got to this point, but for one reason or another your world files and your track database files are not in alignment. The track graphics are in the world file, the path followed by the train is in the track database.David Beach.Palouse & LewistonRoute Building 1% Completed
Route Mapping 10% Completed

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00010.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Sorry to disapoint you David, but nothing is out of alignment. The track database is just fine. This is a mystery that you will have to solve when you get a copy of the route. You have to find the spot first. Bill Burnett doesn't have an exclusive on strange mysterious places anymore! That's all I have to say about that!
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route -- 20%

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Note to Cal:
I'm also in Beaverton and working on laying all the tracks in the metro area. As a total novice this is taking some time. Rather than duplicating efforts, are there nearby routes available for download, such as gorge east and west or Willamette valley south?I'd be happy to share when I get mine to the point that it is worthy.Just curious.Sinclair

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-02 AT 11:00 AM (EDT)

I am not aware of any others in Portland area. There are a couple of routes in Washington that are in progress or available. One of those is the Seattle BNSF. I am tentatively planning to do the P&W (formerly WPRR) from Portland south to Eugene if I ever finish the Columbia Gorge.My current route is both sides of the Columbia River from Wishram-Celilo area west to Troutdale. The first phase goes as far as Hood River. The biggest challenge so far has been The Dalles Dam which,I am happy to say, is finished.If you want to get together sometime and compare notes, let me know.
cal.rasmussen@verizon.net
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route -- 20%

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Speaking of Seattle, I am currently doing some terrain editing right now. Me and Bret DEMed and Markered the Milwaukee Road Route and looked through it... not to much editing to do (haha..yeah...right ) As for the Seattle Route.. i'm still baffled and lost about the .ref file....still no xtracks in the RE also...Cal.. I'm still more or less confused about what'cha did or what happened to that train... can we get another clue?Brian E. Bundridge
Founder - Evergreen Tracks
Seattle, WashingtonLaying Rail on The UP Main Line between West Siding and Black River, BNSF Main Between Tacoma and Puyallup. 23%ish

Starting the Rail America, Cascade and Columbia River Route 0%ish

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Well, Brian, sometimes the ground just swallows things up and then they appear somewhere else. This would seem to imply that there might be another place similar to this one. There was a need and I decided to have some fun with it.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route -- 20%

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal - I can't see the "need" for your, um, interesting result, but if it's intentional, then the way I'd do it is to lay a separate line of track below the surface. You could start with a turnout at grade level, then continue to drop one of the lines below ground and realign it with the line following the grade. A different sort of double-tracked route.The only "need" I can see is if you're trying to do something in the activity editor where you need a train to appear at a given time and the AE won't let you because of signal issues. Something akin to staging tracks on a model RR.Your post asking about hiding track segments in the AE pointed me toward that thought.Andy

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

I think I've said too much already. Another guru here in this forum released a route a few months ago with at least one mystery on it and hints of a second. The AE made it quite easy to find the first. The second, I'm not sure about. I don't know if it really exists. I don't know if I exist! Maybe MSTS is reality and the world is a simulation... Now I've gone too far! The men in black are coming after me for saying too much!Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (The Dalles Yard 75%)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Sinclair,How far along are you?I have all the DEM files that any route in the Portland Metro area could possibly need. Do you need terrain? Including Distant Mountains?David Beach.Palouse & LewistonRoute Building 1% Completed
Route Mapping 10% Completed

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00010.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-02 AT 05:30 PM (EDT)

David,
I plan on adding distant mountain data to my route. Mt. Hood is very visible from several locations on the route. I am not sure about Mt. St. Helens or Mt. Adams. My question is will the distant mountain data you have work in any route that needs it? I.E. I think I read on here sometime recently that you have the Mt. Hood data. Will that work from The Dalles Dam vicinity or is it only good from Portland? In any case, would you be willing to share it? (edit) One more question, what kind of impact does DM have on performance?
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route -- 20%

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal,Don't believe that DM has enough impact on performance to not use it. You just can't do the north side of the river across from Hood River and not have Mt. Hood in sight.Distant Mountains are derived from DEM files just the same as regular terrain. I've got every thing that is theoretically visible from the high points in the Portland area. To do your DM, I would need to get the east side of the Cascades, but that wouldn't take much.If you would like me to do DM for you, send the files in your route's root folder, plus the TD folder. From that I can get the area you are doing as regular terrain and see which additional files I need to add to my collection. Once I am ready, I will have you stop work on the route and send the root files again, as I don't know how much they actually change in the DM process (probably only the .TRK file is affected). Then I can every thing back and you can start in again. The Lo_Tiles folder does not take up nearly as much room as the regular Tiles folder. The Lo_Tiles folder for Tim Muir's route is only about 5 meg and it runs Cascades to Coast Range, from well south of Portland (about Mt. Jefferson) to Kelso & St. Helens, plus Mt. Adams and Mt. Rainier.Unfortunately the Distant Mountains only show up for about 50 miles. The klowns of kuju were never our into the great open spaces where the horizon is define by mountains a hundred miles or more away. Further up the river than I think you are going, you can see Mt. Hood from 150 miles or so away in the Boardman area. Many other places, particularly on the north side of the river, Mt. Hood can be seen from distances of well over 50 miles. I guess you'll just have to use sky conductor and make those misty/low cloud days where there is no visibility. Heck, even things that can't be part of Distant Mountains need to be see at far greater distances than the silly sim allows. The OT Bridge is visible east bound on 84 for almost 4 miles, the Biggs Bridge is visible west bound on 84 for about 5 miles, the grain elevators across the river from Arlington are visible west bound on 84 for about 6 miles, and the best the sim can do is 2000 meters.If you would like me to do your DM, you can send the files to davidbeach at spiretech dot com.David Beach.Palouse & LewistonRoute Building 1% Completed
Route Mapping 10% Completed

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00010.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Is there a way to make the distant mountains to show as buildings?
I'd like to get the WTC & other tall buildings to show a bit farther.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Yes, but.To make them show as DM, you would have to have them in your DEM data, and then you would have to deal with the limitations of terrain features in DM mode. First, because the DM tile is, if I recall correctly, 16 times the size of a regular tile, the grid spacing would be 4 times that of the regular tile, or 32 meters between points. So, if you could manipulate the DEM file, you could put in four or nine points (32m x 32m or 64m x 64m squares) at the elevation of the top of the buildings. If you were able to get everything in the right place, you should be able to get a flat plateau, but the base of the sides would be 32m out from the top, so the sides would not be vertical.There were many BAD decisions made as to what can be visible at what distance. At night, when the sight lines are clear, signals are visible for several miles, and even during the day they can be visible for a mile or more when lined up on axis.David Beach.Palouse & LewistonRoute Building 1% Completed
Route Mapping 10% Completed

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00010.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

David,
I'm not nearly as far along as I was a month ago. I've been unable to resolve some major hangups that crept into my database, so I have regrouped with the last clean backup. Unfortunately, it had been a while between backups. I had all the through track (not bothering with ALL of the sidings) from Vancouver to McMinville and from Halsey to Forest Grove. I went down the Columbia as far as the end of Sauvie Island and the track over to Hillsboro. I had MAX in from Halsey to Vista Ridge and the entire streetcar line.I had just put in the last connenctor from downtown to Lake Oswego when I discovered the problems and fixing them just grew into bigger problems.I am stumbling through the darkness and have just now found this site and others working on the same kind of projects. All of this is still real new to me, and most of the information is a little over my novice head, but fascinating none-the-less. Right now I am at information over-load. I'm working on building Union Station downtown and the old Tigard station. I have a crude 1st version of a MAX train and am testing ships to run up and down the rivers. So far, it is mainly track with not much detail and my terrain is still basic.I'd love to learn more about distant mountains and what DEM files is all about.Sinclair

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Don, I would be very interested in seeing what you are doing. Lets get together and have a mini MSTS meet. My email is cal.rasmussen@verizon.net. Sounds like you've taken on quite a lot for a starting project.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (The Dalles Yard done, proceeding to lay track Westward approaching an East/West region boundary. Keep your fingers crossed!)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

DEM is Digital Elevation Model. It is a way of getting the terrain in the sim to match (sort of, see below) the terrain on the ground. The only way to go if you are building a route in the US as there is a good supply of free DEM data. Here are a couple of threads with the view from the top of Council Crest.http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/6349.html
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/6016.htmlDistant Mountains are a lower resolution version of the terrain, viewable at greater distances. Normal terrain is viewable to about 2kM, whereas Distant Mountains are viewable to about 50 miles (plus or minus).The one downside to using DEM, is that the flat terrain created by the RGE is skewed, so the not-so-flat terrain created with DEM is also skewed. It is not possible to maintain correct angles and at the same time have everthing in the right place in terms of lat./long. DEM places all of the terrain features at the correct location lat./long., so the angle between north and west (in the Pacific Northwest) is about 82 degrees instead of 90 degrees, and varies by just where you are. I'm going for as exact as I can get with my route, but I am going to live with the 8 degree skew as I could never get the terrain right, or know where to put anything, if I tried for the correct angles. Also, there is no way presently known to hand form Distant Mountain terrain, so to use DM terrain, you have to use DEM. David Beach.Palouse & LewistonRoute Building 1% Completed
Route Mapping 10% Completed

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00010.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

David,
I can see the value of DEM and look forward to the day I will be ready to work with that system. It seems like every page I turn gives me TONS of more things to learn. I could devote all day to this but somehow real life keeps demanding my attention. Do you have any sources you can recommend so one can learn how to use DEM?Sinclair

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Do a search of this forum for "JohnCS" and go to his DEMEX web site. There you will find the DEMEX program available for download. Also, from what has been posted, but I have not checked, there is a tutorial on the use of DEMEX.The best source of DEM files that I have found is at www.mapmart.com. It may be a bit overwhelming the first time, but you can get all the free DEM files you want. You will have to go through an "order" process, but if you select 10 or fewer files, take them in the standard format, and accept delivery by download, the total cost of the order is $0.00. I typically order 8 at a time, 1/8 degree NS by 1 degree EW. The files arrive compressed and DEMEX can read the compressed file. Do not uncompress as that has been known to corrupt the files.Have fun.David Beach.Palouse & LewistonRoute Building 1% Completed
Route Mapping 10% Completed

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00010.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

David, since you seem to have quite a bit of experience with DEM's I've got a question for you. I have DEM'd my route from Wishram, WA west to Bonneville Dam. Everything has been looking good. However, as I move farther west, I am starting to see "cracks" between some tiles. These occur mainly on hilly terrain and appear as white holes or tears in the terrain. They are only visible from certain angles and distances. I am wondering if this is a case of the DEM's not merging or blending together. I used DEMEX and I think there was an option for seam blending or something like that (Haven't looked at it for awhile). I am fairly certain I used that option. After six months of work on this route, I hesitate to reDEM it. Maybe I can just do some local terraforming at the location of these cracks and fix the problem. What do you think?Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (The Dalles Yard done, proceeding to lay track Westward approaching an East/West region boundary. Keep your fingers crossed!)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Seamfill is one of the first utilities that came out for MSTS to fix these annoying "tears" in the terrain. It's in the utilities file library.Richard

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal,Easy one first, if you the terrain modifications you have made have been mostly "y" keying the track that is in place, you could re-DEM the whole route and not run into too much trouble. You can also re-DEM just selected tiles.The presence of zero elevation points in the DEM file causes things to get interesting and some of John's routines in DEMEX do not work so well if there are true zero elevation points, rather than zero being just missing data. The first pass I made on tryagin's (Tim Muir's) Portland Traction route had a great trench running up and over Council Crest. At that point I crossed my fingers and changed some of the DEMEX options and then re-DEMed the whole thing. No more trenches. Probably could have gotten away with just doing selected tiles, but as there was nothing to need to protect yet, I just did the whole thing. The first pass was made with the same settings I used for the P&L and for the Sumpter Valley, and no trenches in either, so it is the zero elevations. If the Willamette gives zero elevations all the way up to Lake Oswego, I would not be surprised to see zeros for the Columbia at or nearly to Bonneville. Re-DEMing will not do anything to any of the objects in the route except move where the surface of the terrain is in relationship to the object. Make a backup and give it a try. I'm away from my MSTS computer until Monday evening, I will try then to remember which way I had the DEMEX options set to deal with zero elevations.David Beach.Palouse & LewistonRoute Building 1% Completed
Route Mapping 10% Completed

Standardized \global\tsection.dat file now at build00010.

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Cal:What version of DEMEX did you use?

JohnCS
dem_ex@hotmail.com
visit the DEMEX website:
http://www.dem-ex.com

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Version 1.0. I know there are newer versions but I never bothered to upgrade after I DEM'd my route.Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (The Dalles Yard done, proceeding to lay track Westward approaching an East/West region boundary. Keep your fingers crossed!)

Alert | IP

Printer-friendly page | Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

No problems w/ 1.0 in that area. Assuming you are refering to something similar to the attached photo here the scoop:What you see has nothing to do with DEMEX, just an MSTS quirk and nothing seamfill or anything else will address. As the sim moves the terrain towards the lower detail mesh at further distance from the tracks sometimes the LODs doesn't exactly line up and you see these 'tears'.Occationally the RE will not tweek the LOD levels right when editing terrain: you can try deleting the _n.raw & _e.raw files & let them rebuild & see if this helps.If thats not successful tweek the error bias on the individual subtiles until the seam dissapears.

JohnCS
dem_ex@hotmail.com
visit the DEMEX website:
http://www.dem-ex.com

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3d9f3cd16c3a6a6a.jpg

Alert | IP

[ Home | MSTS Forum | MSTS FAQ | File Library ] Copyright © 2002 by Nels Anderson. All Rights Reserved.