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LAST EDITED ON Jul-17-02 AT 11:53 AM (EDT)

I need to create some catwalk railings for some of my barges. My thought is to create a block (cube) the same length and width as the catwalk and the height equal to the railing height. I would then delete the top polygon. The bottom polygon would face down to make it transparent. I want to create the railings as a texture with transparency. However I want the railings visible with transparency from both sides. How do I do that. I think I know how to create the texture files in PSP. I just don't know how to texture both sides of a polygon. I read somewhere you need to create "back-to-back" polygons in order to texture both sides. I am not sure how you do that. H E L P ! ! !
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Temporarily on hold, while working on several TSM projects)

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How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM [View All], calr, 11:40 AM, Jul-17-02, (0) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, calr, Jul-17-02, 04:54 PM, (1) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, rpicardi1, Jul-17-02, 09:30 PM, (8) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, Railfan727, Jul-17-02, 04:56 PM, (2) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, calr, Jul-17-02, 04:59 PM, (3) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, Railfan727, Jul-17-02, 05:01 PM, (5) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, DNJ, Jul-17-02, 05:00 PM, (4) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, calr, Jul-17-02, 05:11 PM, (6) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, tark1054, Jul-17-02, 05:50 PM, (7) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, jkcooney, Jul-17-02, 09:35 PM, (9) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, calr, Jul-18-02, 11:10 AM, (10) RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM, rpicardi1, Jul-18-02, 09:28 PM, (11)

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The above message has also been posted in the TSM forum on the 3dtrains website.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Temporarily on hold, while working on several TSM projects)

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I make a 2 sided poly by extruding a part made of 2 points using the Template mode. No need to close the ends as there aren't any. Then I just apply the texture to the two sides. This is how I made the railings on the steel viaduct bridges.2 poly parts eliminate the 4 unneeded polys if you used a box for railings.I have even played with one poly parts for signs on bridges, etc...SRV Ron

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You need to make two polygons back-to-back, then flip the texture on one of them so it appears correct in the sim.My road signs (ci_signs.zip), and parts of my crossing signals are made this way.

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Do you do that by selecting the points that outline the polygon and do a "create polygon from points" effectively creating a second polygon in the same place as the original?
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Temporarily on hold, while working on several TSM projects)

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I select the polygon, hit Ctrl+C to copy, then Ctrl+V to paste, then go into Polygon mode and hit F to flip it. Then I apply the texture.

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DNJ
Charter Member

Jul-17-02, 05:00 PM (EST)

4. "RE: How to handle two-sided transparency in TSM"
In response to message #0

To create a polygon in TSM - Go into vertex mode, slect points in either clockwise or anti-clockwise order, then press CTRL-P. If the poly faces the wrong way, select it and press F to flip it. You can repeat this for the other side.To texture a polygon, you either texture the part as normal or if this isn't going to work...Select the poly. Open the polygon menu and there's a texture option. Choose 'Custom Texture' on the dialog that pops up. Now you can texture your poly. Its fiddly though. You have to manually move the points around the texture. To reverse the texture you move the relevant points back to front as well. Hope this helps.

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Railfan727, Your method and mine both accomplish the same end result but your method is easier!DNJ, I have discovered that quirk about polygon texturing. I had to manipulate those points in the texture window to do the lettering on both sides of my Tidewater barge. The part texture window has check boxes to flip x or flip y. You would think the same would be true for the polygon texture window. Oh, well. It works.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Temporarily on hold, while working on several TSM projects)

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Cal
The only way to texture both sides is to make a block the length and width of the railing WxxxxHxxxxD-0, then go into polymode and hit the n key and watch the little poly facing indicator. keep the polys that face out on both sides but delete the polys that are shown as end polys. you will have only two polys left texture those. If you want to make the catwalk and the rails at the same time then make a box the length and width of the catwalk, go into poly mode and delete all but the two polys facing out on both sides for the outside of the rails. Keep the bottom poly for the catwalk, go to polygon tab click and then select the bottom poly which will be facing down, and click on the flip poly in the polygon button, then the poly will be facing up. texture this poly with the catwalk texture. then stay in polygon mode and select the railing poly on one side and texture it. select the polygon on the other side and texture it. Then copy that polygon and move it to the other side just inside the other railing and it will be textured and everything. Select the other outside polygon on the other side, copy it and move it to just inside the other polygon. and it will be textured as well.
Hope this helps.
If you have any other questions give me a yell.
Tark1054

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Carl........ I use 3d Canvas Pro for my shape files and they have a feature in the tools section called "Create a Face" which creates a one sided thin face. I then duplicate (clone) that face, rotate it 180 degrees and create the second back face so that both sides will now accept textures. The two "faces' need to be "merged" to create a single face. Don't know if this is what you are attempting but you could then create an Alpha channel to make portions of the faces transparent.

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Well, I got my catwalk rails built. It was a struggle, not with the two-sided polygons, but with the transparency. I created the two-side polys by selecting the points that outlined the original poly and doing "create polygon from points". I then flipped the surface normal and voila, two polys facing opposite directions in the same space. (Doesn't that violate some law of physics?)I thought I knew how to do transparency and alpha channel masks in PSP. Boy, was I wrong! Finally, with some help from a tutorial on the Steam4Me website, I figured it out. Then I had trouble figuring out the correct material type in TSM to get the transparency to work. I thought AlphNorm was the correct one but it was not totally satisfactory. I ended up using TransNorm and then everything worked fine. So, the railings are done. Now I am going to make some ladders using the same technique.
Cal Rasmussen
Beaverton, ORColumbia Gorge Route (Temporarily on hold, while working on several TSM projects)

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Trans Norm is what to use. Alpha Norm doesn't always display properly.There is a feature for making a 2 sided polygon from one in TSModeler but MSTS doesn't support it.My 2 sided polys are extruded from two points using the Template command. Makes it very easy to texture the two sides, no duplicating, pasting, cutting points, custom texturing, etc... The railings on the steel viaduct kits are done with extruded 2 point templates.My 8 poly tubes are made from a 4 side polygon which is then copy, paste, the 4 polys flipped inside, and the two parts joined. Makes a realistic looking open web beam in a bridge.SRV Ron

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