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jerseycentral (701 posts)
Jul-04-01, 11:56 PM (EST) "tight turns and high grades...." thats what this fictional subway style LRT is all about...180 degree turns with a radius of 60 (i could go down to 45 but then you have to have some speed on a mainline) with the MSTS max grade. of course theres no 100 car long freights here, its going to be all about getting from station to station as fast as possible without exceeding passenger limits, not de-railing on the sharp curves, losing the train on the downgrades, or stalling on the upgrades...all this with a tight rush-hour schedule..should be interesting. i finished up all my track work (and thankfully no crashes) and am now working on structures (if you call putting an interlocking tower up at the above ground lay-over yard working on structures). here'some screenshots i took, i dont think they can really capture how steep and sharp some of the grades and curves are.... Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: tight turns and high grades.... ccyko Jul-05-01 1 RE: tight turns and high grades.... djw2000 Jul-05-01 2 RE: tight turns and high grades.... jerseycentral Jul-05-01 3 RE: tight turns and high grades.... djw2000 Jul-06-01 4 RE: tight turns and high grades.... andy_disco Jul-06-01 5 RE: tight turns and high grades.... jerseycentral Jul-06-01 6 RE: tight turns and high grades.... Gixxer86g Jul-09-01 8 RE: tight turns and high grades.... djw2000 Jul-09-01 7 RE: tight turns and high grades.... jerseycentral Jul-09-01 9 RE: tight turns and high grades.... Xacto Jul-10-01 11 RE: tight turns and high grades.... djw2000 Jul-10-01 10 RE: tight turns and high grades.... jerseycentral Jul-10-01 12 RE: tight turns and high grades.... djw2000 Jul-11-01 13 RE: tight turns and high grades.... Xacto Jul-11-01 14 RE: tight turns and high grades.... djw2000 Jul-17-01 15 RE: tight turns and high grades.... Xacto Jul-17-01 16 RE: tight turns and high grades.... pirpen Jul-17-01 18 RE: tight turns and high grades.... railtester Jul-17-01 17

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ccyko (423 posts)
Jul-05-01, 00:03 AM (EST) 1. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." What is this to model, and when will it be available? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djw2000 (27 posts)
Jul-05-01, 07:58 AM (EST) 2. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Great stuff! At least there is someone else wanting to stay with local passenger operations. Am working on my own network, although its not quite subway (or underground to us Brits), it's a suburban network, currently of 4 lines with 22 stations, but which will hopefully become 7 lines (am trying to add at least 1 station per day). Any tips you can give about doing city stuff? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jerseycentral (701 posts)
Jul-05-01, 11:39 AM (EST) 3. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." well, i am doing a fictional line from Weehawken, NJ (which is right across the Hudson River and it is the town where the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel is) to Times Sq. NYC, NY. well, a lot of the tips i am going to use are from model railroading, so here they are:1. use buildings and other objects to prevent the user from seeing stuff you don't want them to see. a carefully placed tree and bridge can hide the fact that your really above ground when entering a tunnel (so long as the user is only in views 1 & 5...damn you MSTS!!!!!!)2. many city railroads have sharp curves and max speeds of at the most (usually) 50MPH. railroads powered by 3rd rail are usually grade-seperated (a real pain to do in MSTS!) but networks powered by catenary (and yes i have seen 2 instances where catenary was used underground, Paris, France & Newark, New Jersey can have grade crossings.3. unfortunately most of the buildings in MSTS are set to a high detail level, i would lower this level to compensate for the fact that the trains are going to be shorter than usual so the FPS hit should be equal. 4. try to model it after something real, free-lancers (what we would be if we were building a model railroad) usually take something they like and then model what they like about it, and toss the rest, this creates a railroad they love.5. put trackage down for pure asthetics! yes, it may cause the route to be larger but nothing spoils it on the than NEC seeing a branchline just end. if you want you can put in a staging yard where no one can see it and have AI trains run out of there to make it look like they are coming from somewhere (this is defitnety a model railroading trick!) 6. fun operation, well, thats what this thing is for right?well thats all i can think of right now, some may be right or wrong to you but i just thought of some of them now so looks like im going to have to check my route once again. if you want some other pointers, id check out some model railroad planning books and use them to guide you, something ive discovered is that my model railroading skills have come in handy with MSTS (and no damn wiring either!)ok..im done! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djw2000 (27 posts)
Jul-06-01, 02:34 AM (EST) 4. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Thanks for the tips. Alas, they will have to wait. My world crashed last night corrupting the track database and so it's back to square 1 . Have you got any maps of your system? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
andy_disco (36 posts)
Jul-06-01, 08:11 AM (EST) 5. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Very cool stuff. Looking forward to seeing the end result! I've been experimenting with a similar concept, using yard track sections, rising rail bridges and some great gradients that dive underground. Looks especially good using 85 degree cuttings / embankments and narrow widths on double-track areas. Now just looking for some third rail...If this goes well, I'll be exploring those above-ground sections of the PATH service from Newark to Journal Square to grab some more modelling inspiration!Disco
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jerseycentral (701 posts)
Jul-06-01, 09:22 AM (EST) 6. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." well, my inspiration was the NYCT Subways but PATH played a major role in it too! your right, we need someone smart to give us 3rd rail...oh..and i have noticed that if you assemble a 2000 series trainset with out a power unit it still works, so when you run them they look like subway cars! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Gixxer86g (303 posts)
Jul-09-01, 06:35 AM (EST) 8. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Great idea.Those bridge approachs from the NEC have sick grades.If I was to hit one fast enough in my car it would probably scrape the front end! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djw2000 (27 posts)
Jul-09-01, 03:40 AM (EST) 7. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Version 2 of my local network is up and running...I am finding it is all going a lot more quickly now and the network is expanding quite rapidly (seeing as I only started it on Friday evening). There are 16 stations currently and I am running on the same design as before. Just one thing...is there any way of keeping the number of tiles down? And also, can anyone tell me how to have part of the network running as a subway with stations underground...can't fathom that one as yet!DJ Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jerseycentral (701 posts)
Jul-09-01, 11:07 AM (EST) 9. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." well...i cant tell you about keeping tiles down. for subway sections i got some test tunnel and station sections. i dont know if they are still posted on internet but there was a link, check way back for a thread named "is it true". anyway, this little project has been shelved in favor of a real subway route which is in the research stage right now but construction wont start (well track work is almost done) until i get back from all my trips which wont be until august. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Xacto (639 posts)
Jul-10-01, 09:27 AM (EST) 11. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Those test files are still available. Here's the link:http://www.erols.com/true2scale/Tunnel02.zipThat contains .s , .sd, and .ace files for a simple station and tunnel (both single track)This file contains the max, 3ds, and textures for those objects in case anyone want's to edit them.http://www.erols.com/true2scale/Subtest.zipThis is a 10 M length of 3rd rail, cosmetic only, it isn't a piece of "approved" trackwork or anything, just an object to place alongside the track to simulate a 3rd rail. I'm not sure if it works correctly, someone said they had problems with it.http://www.erols.com/true2scale/3drail.zipHope they help,Cliff Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djw2000 (27 posts)
Jul-10-01, 03:27 AM (EST) 10. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Grades? It has crossed my mind that there must be more to this grade thing than meets my eye. I mean I know about rotating the track up and down, but is it possible to grade it to go up and down yet more steeply? That would make things quite fun! Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jerseycentral (701 posts)
Jul-10-01, 11:50 AM (EST) 12. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." rotating track up and down will give you a very steep grade rarely seen in real life on mainlines but subways and other transit systems may differ. if we in the locomotive forum ever figuire out how to get anim8or to export MSTS happy 3ds files (its been done ive been told, but its happens at random?) and if i figuire out how to texture things properly i may actually take a crack at producing my own subway 3ds models (oh the things i want to make!). Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djw2000 (27 posts)
Jul-11-01, 02:23 AM (EST) 13. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Sounds good....now I'm gonna make myself sound real stupid now I guess...I have read posting after posting on these tunnels...what do I actually have to do, step by step? I once got the transfers out, but they seem to be the standard block thingy and not a square of grass. I just can't quite see it!Network's coming along nicely, stops are a little further apart than on a subway, and fractionally longer than on the Tokyo line. Do you have a subway station shape that I could use? I would love to do a subway too....I will get the map of my network up soon (got Corel last night and will work on a pretty map with the different lines!)... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Xacto (639 posts)
Jul-11-01, 12:10 PM (EST) 14. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." There is a station in the files I provided links for. It's not very realistic, just a platform in a tunnel, no turnstiles, exits, or anything else. It's also not long enough, but it was only made as a test. You don't need to use the station or the subway tunnel under the ground plane in TS. You can stick them over your track above ground and they will enclose the track and simulate the effect of actually being underground. There are some problems with lighting I believe, but overall, the effect was pretty good from the screenshots that were posted.Cliff Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
djw2000 (27 posts)
Jul-17-01, 03:54 AM (EST) 15. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." I tried to use the files for tunnels and stations but they just don't appear as available. Am I doing something wrong? Also, if anyone was interested, they would be more than welcome to a first (very basic) version of my network.... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Xacto (639 posts)
Jul-17-01, 09:15 AM (EST) 16. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Did you create a .ref entry for them? I have no experience with adding scenery objects to a route, but I'm pretty sure the objects need to be added to the ref file before they will show up as usable objects.Cliff Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
pirpen (45 posts)
Jul-17-01, 10:35 AM (EST) 18. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Hi Xacto! I´m building a small subwayline, using your station and tunnel. Great stuff, but everytime i start the route. I get this error: No Extended Shape Data For Tun01.s and the same thing for Tun02.s. Clicking OK, a few times starts the route.
I use the series2000 for train, and lowerd the wires. I´m sorry for my english. My pics are in photo section, page 11.
Many thanks! /Pierre Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
railtester (294 posts)
Jul-17-01, 10:10 AM (EST) 17. "RE: tight turns and high grades...." Ray, check this message I put up yesterday about Japanese add-on subway cars!http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/536.htmlI included a link to bable fish for translation.David Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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