Message Areas - "TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes… ?"

Train-Sim.Com Message Areas

"TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?"

Email this topic to a friend
Printer-friendly version of this topic
Bookmark this topic (Registered users only)
Previous Topic | Next Topic Conferences MSTS Route Design (Protected) Original message
cjmaclean (759 posts)
Dec-19-01, 03:36 PM (EST) "TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" Hi all,
my question might be a bit odd, but anyway, the dumbest questions are only those that remain unasked, no? Today I purchased the ProTrain Rheintal route, and although I enjoy it a lot (I happen to live near Frankfurt, so I'm somewhat familiar with the area), I became aware of the following.
Many static scenery objects had to be newly designed, of course - such as buildings and signals in a more German style. But besides that I noticed that the route developers did not used the fairly nice default TS trees and plants to decorate the scenery, but rather somewhat more simple "multiple sprite" trees, similar (but not identical) to those that are customarily placed in the "background" of any route to create the impression of a large forest, but with less strain on the PC hardware.What I keep asking myself now, might it be that the default TS scenery objects MUST NOT be used for a COMMERCIAL add-on product for M$'s copyright reasons? I seem to remember that I read something like that some time ago, but am not quite certain at this moment.I'm only curious to understand those technicalities a bit better, I don't intend to criticize
the route builders, as they did after all produce a route that is, well, almost in my neighbourhood ...!Anybody know more than I do?
D.M.
"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Table of Contents

Subject Author Message Date ID RE: TS default objects prohibited f... LawrenceKellie Dec-19-01 1 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... cjmaclean Dec-19-01 2 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... steam4me Dec-19-01 3 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... LawrenceKellie Dec-19-01 5 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... Tepic Dec-19-01 6 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... ExpressMark Dec-22-01 10 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... DKlemm Dec-19-01 4 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... dvdhoven Dec-20-01 7 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... akochan Dec-20-01 8 RE: TS default objects prohibited f... dvdhoven Dec-21-01 9

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Messages in this topic
LawrenceKellie (1164 posts)
Dec-19-01, 03:51 PM (EST) 1. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" Everything that MS/KUJU created which they put together into the software named Microsoft Train Simulator is protected by intellectual property laws--regardless if the intellectual property are patents, trademarks, trade names, copyrights, etc. That includes every little tree that is in the shape directory.When you purchase MSTS, there is an agreement that you enter into with MS that limits what you can do with that intellectual property. If you want to go beyond the boundaries of that agreement, you must contact MS/KUJU to obtain a license agreement that you can use their intellectual property in a fashion beyond the current license/agreement. MS/KUJU has the right to grant you permission or not, according to intellectual property laws. If you use their intellectual property in such a manner that it goes beyond the agreement you entered into with MS/KUJU by loading the software, or by any other agreement into which you enter, they have every legal right to enforce their intellectual property rights and demand that you cease and desist. If you continue to infringe upon their intellectual property rights, they can take you to court to force you to cease and desist.And no, I am not an attorney, I just work in the intellectual property industry.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
cjmaclean (759 posts)
Dec-19-01, 04:11 PM (EST) 2. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" A follow-up to my earlier question...I have read various postings demanding a "SDK" (software developer's kit"?) for Train Sim. My understanding is that this might be a remedy for the copyright issues imposed on the default TS objects...correct?Sorry, I'm neither a programmer nor a lawyer, I'm studying German and English philology ...
D.M.
"Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
steam4me (53 posts)
Dec-19-01, 04:27 PM (EST) 3. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?"
>Everything that MS/KUJU created which they
>put together into the software
>named Microsoft Train Simulator is
>protected by intellectual property laws--regardless
>if the intellectual property are
>patents, trademarks, trade names, copyrights,
>etc. That includes every
>little tree that is in
>the shape directory.
Hi LawrenceThe interesting thing, though, is that you are not using their intellectual property anywhere else except in MSTS. The route will have a reference to the shape in the .REF file, but the shape stays inside MSTS and can only be used inside MSTS. For example, the track shapes used in commercial routes are an integral part of MSTS - correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the commercial routes create their own track pieces, do they? If they don't (create a new set of track shapes), how is a tree different to a track shape?Another example: if I send you an MS Word document which has embedded in it an instruction to use "Book Antiqua" font, I'm not in breach of copyright to TrueType for doing so. Why then is an instruction to use a tree shape a breach of copyright/intellectual property?RegardsYuri.

==================================
MSTS Australian Add-ons site
http://www.railpage.org.au/steam4me/trainsim
==================================
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
LawrenceKellie (1164 posts)
Dec-19-01, 05:51 PM (EST) 5. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" I am not an attorney, I gave the full extent of what I know about the process.Lawrence Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Tepic (46 posts)
Dec-19-01, 06:11 PM (EST) 6. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?"
>The interesting thing, though, is that
>you are not using their
>intellectual property anywhere else except
>in MSTS. The route
>will have a reference to
>the shape in the .REF
>file, but the shape stays
>inside MSTS and can only
>be used inside MSTS. Another idea which could be a way around the problem... And No, I am not a lawyer. If the default shape files ship with MSTS anyhow, and every MSTS user has a license to use said files within the MSTS software. Maybe 3rd party developers should be okay as long as they don't ship the actual files themselves. Maybe program the installer to copy them from the default route to the new route? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ExpressMark (93 posts)
Dec-22-01, 01:41 AM (EST) 10. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" >their own track pieces, do
>they? If they don't
>(create a new set of
>track shapes), how is a
>tree different to a track
>shape?
> Hello, since I just recently finished a commercial route then let me share what we ran into and what we were allowed and the differences. You are right, No objects or content is allowed in a commercial project that isnt 100% original. With one acception, Track and Roads. However, with them you have to create your own Textures.What is the difference, honestly I fel as you, there isnt much, but, yet on the other side there is some. Microsoft new that the Road and Track sections would be among the most dificult to reproduce and in most case impossible. Though some have over come this, myself included, there are still areas of track section cretion that I have had trouble with. This thought in mind, this was the difference Microsoft saw as different, and descided to not make us become programmers, and not discourage 3rd party development they felt they would need to bend a little on thier No content rule. A Tree ofcourse is one of the simplest objects to create, and so on that side of the spectrum they felt you can make your own. WHich I did, in my LTV ROute I have over 30+ tree types. Perhaps things will change down the road but for now we have to make our own if we wish to commercialize our routes.
Mark Branscum Hope this Helps3DTrains.com Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
DKlemm (1053 posts)
Dec-19-01, 04:34 PM (EST) 4. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" What Lawrence said is right but I think MS has made an exception to using certain of their objects on commercial products. From what I remember reading when the Tehachapi route came out, MS said due to the difficult nature to create tracks and roads, those could be used in commercial ventures(and one other that I can't remember now). But part of the reason the route was delayed is they had to yank out most of the scenery and create their own and then turn it into a developers route.Now this is from memory and could be wrong.David Klemm
Illinois Central Route
Illinois and St Louis Divisions
Ver 0.6 uploaded
Working on Decatur IL
Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (511 posts)
Dec-20-01, 01:32 PM (EST) 7. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" Hi,New - more realistic textures - for the Pro Train route can be found here: http://www.simrail.de/Dick van den Hoven Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
akochan (399 posts)
Dec-20-01, 02:50 PM (EST) 8. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" Is some third party trying to fix that route or are they trying to fix it themselves? I couldn't read the german on that site. I hope it's a third party. I'd hate to see Dick taken hostage by ProTrain for giving it a bad review then forced at gunpoint to do public service announcements for them. -Andy
akochan@crosswinds.net Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
dvdhoven (511 posts)
Dec-21-01, 02:11 PM (EST) 9. "RE: TS default objects prohibited for commercial routes...?" Hi,No akochan, it is real, it is a third party, in fact simrail.de is a site of one or more German railfans. But the new textures are great and worth downloading. The textures that came with the route were so light green, that use my sunglasses when driving that route. Simrail has changed the homepage, now choose Add-ons in the left frame and then in the Add-on page Pro Train AustauschtexturenAnd don't get me started about that Pro Train route again, it is that bad. But when I start to explain why I find it a bad route, mr Rolf is getting angry again and he is quiet building his next route, so let him do that.Oh when you want the Simrail review translated, just give a reply.Dick van den Hoven Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

Lock | Archive | Remove

Lobby | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic