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jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-23-01, 06:11 PM (EST) "Route Editor drives me crazy" I'm creating an experimental version of the NYCTA subway system but the Route Editor is driving me crazy because I can't find out the exact locations of tracks and stations that I could use when drawing the layout using a CAD program before using the Route Editor. I could use the NYC street map but it's very hard for me to convert the measurements. How can I use the NYC street map to create the NYCTA subway system? Jeffrey. Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
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Subject Author Message Date ID RE: Route Editor drives me crazy Xacto Sep-23-01 1 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-24-01 3 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy wewain Sep-24-01 2 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy Boweavel Sep-24-01 4 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy wewain Sep-24-01 5 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy ccyko Sep-24-01 6 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-24-01 8 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy wewain Sep-24-01 14 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy - ... ronik24 Sep-24-01 7 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy - ... jeffmorris Sep-24-01 11 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy - ... ronik24 Sep-24-01 16 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy - ... jeffmorris Sep-25-01 17 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jmw Sep-24-01 9 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-24-01 10 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jmw Sep-24-01 12 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-24-01 13 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jmw Sep-24-01 15 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-25-01 18 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-26-01 19 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy ronik24 Sep-26-01 20 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-26-01 21 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-26-01 22 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy jeffmorris Sep-27-01 23 RE: Route Editor drives me crazy Boweavel Sep-27-01 24

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Xacto (629 posts)
Sep-23-01, 10:24 PM (EST) 1. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" I'm not real familiar with the route editor, but how about this idea? There is a grid shown in the editor I believe. If you find out the scale spacing of this grid, lay it out on a map of the city. Let's say the grid in the editor is 1 KM. If you draw out a 1 km grid on the street map, then you can use it to locate stations and trackwork in the editor. This is assuming you have a accurately scaled map of NYC with no distortions. I don't know if this is a workable idea, but it seems like it would feasable.Cliff Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-24-01, 06:01 AM (EST) 3. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" Cliff, I think that the size of the grid in route editor is 2 KM. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wewain (100 posts)
Sep-24-01, 01:23 AM (EST) 2. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-01 AT 01:31 AM (EST)LAST EDITED ON Sep-24-01 AT 01:30 AM (EST)Try using MapBlast at: http://www.mapblast.com/ to look at
the city streets. I used it to find my latitude and longitude
along my route, (which is not the subway) so that I could
crate a Marker file to follow when laying track. I zoomed in to the smallest scale they had, and by placing
one of their markers at a location of interest, the Latitude
and Longitude are displayed in the border at the top right
of the map. Copy them down, print a screen copy or do a
screen capture, and you have your info for that point.
Repeat this for intervals along the route, especially at
the start and end of curves. But, however you get the values, use them to place MSTS
Markers on your route at each point, (see "How to
Create Marker Files" in the Techdocs folder in one of the
MSTS CDs).There also have been a couple of threads in this forum from
people working on NYC Subways. Try the Search feature of the
forum to see if you can find them, and try e-mailing some of
the prople who contributed to the thread, to find out how
they approached it. Perhaps they might respond to this thread.There have been comments about the difficulty with
building an underground route and stations in MSTS, not the
least of which is getting light in so that you can see
anything. Perhaps you can just build it at grade level
and later place structure over it, to make it seem like
it's underground.You may also have to get familiar with using dynamic track
because of the tight curves in a subway. There have been
threads on the forum about that also.One last point... check out this site for NYC Subway Maps,
perhaps they have something you can use:
http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/track/ Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Boweavel (1469 posts)
Sep-24-01, 06:30 AM (EST) 4. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" Im playing with the cheeseman co route and decided to give mapblast a go to find some info on the place, One thing I can say about mapblast is at least the Co ord's seem spot on...
How do i get the map to show rail and\or roads ? Im only getting lakes , which is handy cause I happen to be doing the water first, But I'd like some national roads or rail to place markers by, Plus towns and city's in the area I suppose.......Thanks for any help.... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wewain (100 posts)
Sep-24-01, 10:53 AM (EST) 5. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" I found rail lines on MapBlast for my route, (the LIRR).
Take a look at the following URL for an example:
http://www.mapblast.com/myblast/map.mb?CMD=LFILL&CT=40.706129%3A-73.310634%3A5000&GAD3=North+Babylon%2C+NY++11703&GAD4=USA&IC=40.706129%3A-73.310634%3A8%3A&AD3=11703&AD4=USA&Zip=11795&W=456&H=259&GC=X%3A-73.310634%7CY%3A40.706129%7CLT%3A40.706129%7CLN%3A-73.310634%7CLS%3A5000&lv=1&serch=&FS=&MA=3&MAP.x=429&MAP.y=60You can also use the "Convert3" Utility to create
an MSTS Marker File with railroads and (federally funded)
highways for anywhere in the US, (although I doubt that
it includes subways or city streets).
It can be downloaded free from the Train-Sim at:
http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/kds?eMy4m01H=main/download.htm Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ccyko (368 posts)
Sep-24-01, 11:21 AM (EST) 6. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" When laying track on the 'L', I just started from a certain point and made everything relative to that point. Between stations I just estimated the distance via street numbers and layed track from one station to the next, rather than laying the track and coming back to try and figure out where this would be or that would be.-Chris
Chicago-L
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jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-24-01, 12:18 PM (EST) 8. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" Wewain, Thank you very much for telling me about the MapBlast web site. I created a marker file for one of the subway stations and started building the trackwork and switchwork at Coney Island station. I had problems using dynamic track to create 2 or more curved tracks side by side because of lack of precision in the dynamic track creating dialog box. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
wewain (100 posts)
Sep-24-01, 08:50 PM (EST) 14. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" Take a look at the following thread that I posted a response
to a while back and explained how you can position the camera
to watch how the dynamic track is curving as you change the
angle values:
http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=8&forum=DCForumID6&archive=#3 Just keep adjusting the angle values until you get it
close enough to the way you want it. The angle values are
entered in radians, but no calculations are required with
this method... just fiddle with the numbers until it's OK.Also, check out the tutorial about dynamic track at:
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID6/1667.html#5
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ronik24 (166 posts)
Sep-24-01, 12:11 PM (EST) 7. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy - Two methods" The Terrain is divided into tiles (the ones you select in the Route Geometry Extractor). Each tile measures 2.048 km x 2.048 km. A tile consists of 16x16 patches, each one measuring 128 m x 128 m. In the Route Editor you can see the tiles when you press F7 (= selecting the tile editing tool). The tile borders are blue lines, patch borders black lines (all N-S/W-E orientation). So you could use this for orientation.
You can also create markers, but you have to create these manually, and you have to know the coordinates of each marker.
They are stored in *.mkr files (which have to be in unicode, so not with the Notepad, use Wordpad or Word, ...).A marker entry looks like this (you can also see it in one of the original routes):
Marker (-2.92978 54.8882 carlisle_station 2)The first two are the coordinates, then follows the name and the last number is 0, 1 or 2 to distinguish between three flag types (for example between stations, switches, tunnel entrances, but that's up to you).Hope this helps,Roní Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-24-01, 06:34 PM (EST) 11. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy - Two methods" Konik24, I pressed the F7 key to turn on the grid. Isn't the grid supposed to be on the ground (green grass) instead of a few meters up in the air? Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ronik24 (166 posts)
Sep-24-01, 10:26 PM (EST) 16. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy - Two methods" Yeah, I didn't notice that before, but I don't think that's very disturbing, especially when you look straight down.I have a suggestion, if you don't want to use markers or Mappoint or whatever:Put the 2.048x2.048/128x128 grid over the map, maybe drawn on some transparency and of course in the correct scale, and draw the stations and lines on it. This should go relatively fast, accurate and doesn't cost that much.Roní Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-25-01, 12:20 PM (EST) 17. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy - Two methods" I bought a pack of transparency film for color inkjet printers and a ruler at Staples store. I used AutoCAD to create a grid of the correct size. I will print the grid on the film and put the film on the street map. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jmw (26 posts)
Sep-24-01, 04:13 PM (EST) 9. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" I have been playing around with trying to layout NYC subway. I have had some success with using MapPoin 2002. I have created Pushpins and placed them at the street intersections where I know subway stations are located (thus far...mainly Manhattan and Bronx...although a few Brooklyn). I then wrote some VB code to run MapPoint as an Automation Server. The result is that I can query each pushpin's location, get it converted to Latitude and Longitude, and write a MSTS marker file. A small sample is at the end of this message. It does not solve the problem of knowing where the start and end of platforms are relative to street locations...If I had that information, I could refine this technique to place more, and more accurate pushpins...Sample:
Marker ( -74.0135 40.7079 "Rector St - Greenwich St." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0094 40.7064 "Wall St. - William St." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0112 40.7062 "Broad St - Wall St." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0064 40.7095 "Fulton St - William St." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0076 40.7125 "Park Pl. - Broadway" 2 )
Marker ( -74.0079 40.7149 "Chambers St - Church St." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0077 40.7102 "Fulton St. - Nassau St." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0068 40.7192 "Varick St - Franklin St." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0091 40.7154 "Chambers St - W. Broadway" 2 )
Marker ( -74.0062 40.7226 "Varick St - Canal St." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0040 40.7256 "Spring St - 6th Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0059 40.7223 "Canal St. - 6th Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -74.0053 40.7286 "7th Ave - Houston St." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9851 40.6905 "Hoyt St - Fulton Mall" 2 )
Marker ( -73.9710 40.6753 "Grand Army Plaza" 2 )
Marker ( -73.9750 40.6809 "Bergen St - Flatbush Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9774 40.6840 "Atlantic Ave - Flatbush Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9810 40.6886 "Nevins St - Flatbush Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9654 40.6723 "Eastern Pkwy - Brooklyn Museum" 2 )
Marker ( -73.9476 40.6329 "Flatbush Ave - Nostrand Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9483 40.6400 "Newkirk Ave - Nostrand Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9489 40.6452 "Beverley Rd - Nostrand Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9495 40.6509 "Church Ave - Nostrand Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9501 40.6570 "Winthrop St - Nostrand Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9579 40.6706 "Eastern Pkwy - Franklin Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9508 40.6631 "Sterling St - Nostrand Ave." 2 )
Marker ( -73.9506 40.6681 "President St - Nostrand Ave." 2 )
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jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-24-01, 06:00 PM (EST) 10. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" JMW, Where can I get Map Point 2002? Can you send me the VB code? Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jmw (26 posts)
Sep-24-01, 07:23 PM (EST) 12. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" MapPoint 2002 is a Microsoft Product.
I will send you the VB code...it is pretty small...
Do you have any detailed information on the station/platform locations?
Do you have the DEM data for the NYC area? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-24-01, 07:41 PM (EST) 13. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" JMW, How much money does Map Point 2002 cost? I don't have DEM data for NYC area. I don't have detailed info on stations but stations that have entrances/exits at center of platforms usually have center of platfroms under intersections and stations that have entrances/exits at both ends of platforms usually have platforms between two streets. This doesn't apply to stations such as Times Square and 34th Street/6th Avenue because they have entrances/exits all over the station and have platforms on different levels. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jmw (26 posts)
Sep-24-01, 09:15 PM (EST) 15. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" Looks like $250 list price for MapPoint 2002.
I got it for attending a Microsoft event. Didn't realize it was so costly.Is there a list of which stations have center versus end of platform entrances? Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-25-01, 12:26 PM (EST) 18. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" $250 for MS Map Point 2002 is too much money compared to $50 for MS Streets & Trips 2002. I bought a pack of transparency film for color inkjet printers and a ruler at Staples store. I used AutoCAD to create a grid of the correct size. I will print the grid on the film and put the film on the street map. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-26-01, 04:46 AM (EST) 19. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" I did the 4th Avenue route (R) from 95th Street to Pacific Street, the Sea Beach route (N) from 59th Street to 86th Street, and the West End route (W) from 36th Street to Bay Parkway. I hope that I won't have problems getting the N and W routes to meet at Stillwell Avenue. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
ronik24 (166 posts)
Sep-26-01, 06:57 AM (EST) 20. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" I hope you know how to make routes meet with dynamic track... Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-26-01, 12:16 PM (EST) 21. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" I got the Sea Beach (N) and West End (W) routes to meet at the crossover near the Stillwell Avenue station with a few adjustments in the trackwork but the switchwork at the station drove me crazy so I changed the switchwork there. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-26-01, 06:12 PM (EST) 22. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" The trackwork and switchwork at Dekalb Avenue and Stillwell Avenue stations drove me crazy. I looked for the program that helps me make plans for model train layouts but I can't find the CD-ROM. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
jeffmorris (465 posts)
Sep-27-01, 12:09 PM (EST) 23. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" I watched the video about Trainz's route editing module and found out that it's much easier to create routes for Trainz than for MSTS that has frustrating route editor. You can create custom track switches such as the three-way track switch shown in the video. I don't want to waste any more time trying to use the frustrating route editor to create new routes for MSTS. Jeffrey. Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top
Boweavel (1469 posts)
Sep-27-01, 12:20 PM (EST) 24. "RE: Route Editor drives me crazy" Go check this post out about it.....http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/3207.html Remove | Alert Edit | Reply | Reply With Quote | Top

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