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I'm about to embark on building my own system and wondering how much RAM to get. You indicated that you could squeeze any route into 1MB with the RAMdisk.Any operational problems in the last few weeks?
krswen

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OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk? [View All], krswen, 10:58 PM, Mar-19-03, (0) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, heffed, Mar-20-03, 00:03 AM, (1) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, IcyFire, Mar-20-03, 08:06 AM, (2) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, OTTODAD, Mar-20-03, 09:16 AM, (3) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, bjrhatigan, Mar-20-03, 11:24 AM, (4) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, derekmorton, Mar-20-03, 03:12 PM, (5) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, bjrhatigan, Mar-20-03, 03:23 PM, (6) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, buttercup, Mar-20-03, 03:32 PM, (7) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, derekmorton, Mar-20-03, 03:40 PM, (8) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, OTTODAD, Mar-20-03, 04:00 PM, (9) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, DTA, Mar-20-03, 05:40 PM, (10) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, buttercup, Mar-20-03, 05:44 PM, (11) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, ckawahara, Mar-24-03, 11:54 AM, (12) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, OTTODAD, Mar-24-03, 08:55 PM, (13) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, ckawahara, Mar-25-03, 10:46 AM, (14) RE: OTTODAD ..... any more updates on RAMdisk?, OTTODAD, Mar-25-03, 12:52 PM, (15)

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>I'm about to embark on building my own system and wondering
>how much RAM to get. You indicated that you could squeeze
>any route into 1MB with the RAMdisk. I believe he said 1GB. Rolling stock alone will be over 1MB.-Jeff

Union Pacific is my drug.

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Otto has what? 1 gig of ram? My rig is up and running stable 100% now and I Too have 1 gig of ram, This RAMdisk sounds interesting, Fill me in Otto, Im interestedBTW, Im running:P4 2.66Ghz
1Gig PC2700 Ram
Radeon 9700 pro A-I-W

Shawn shawnssk@yahoo.com
Screen Shot Forum Mod
TKW & YLW Repainter

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O.K. guys, here is the RAMDISK story. Started experimenting with the NT4-WIN XP Beta version of the RAMDISK from www.cenatek.com/products.cfm a while back, the final WIN-XP version to be released shortly at a very reasonable price ! I first tried it on my WIN-98SE 512 Mb Ram computer, no chance. WIN 98 can not cope with more than that, well not without a lot of hassle.Next on me WIN-XP Home with 1 Gb of DDR RAM split 50-50, O.K. with the Routes I tested it with, having to give the RAMDISK a larger share of RAM for Routes like the N.&.J.C. but not the P.O.&.N., two of the Routes most likely to benefit from a much faster simulated "Hard Disk" in RAM ! Will try the SEAVIEW-III next.GREAT JOB Bill Burnett ! "Armchair Tourism" at it's best ! Beats going into the heat of to the Bahamas, I did with my Son and family from Fort Lauderdale a few years ago.I digress ! Next I increased RAM to 1.5 Gb and that is enough for any of the Routes I got, allocating 768 Mb for the RAMDISK.RAM is partitioned or not at Start-Up with the WIN-XP Boot.ini. The Boot Menu showing at Start-up also a handy way to drop into SAFE MODE in case of problems and there still are occasional ones when you are experimenting a lot like I do ! Next I created "Stand Alone" versions of MSTS in separate Folders, call them what you like NEC-4 or SEAVIEW-III, containing the minimum MSTS Folders/Files one single Route needs to function, removing all Consists and Trainsets the Route's Activities do not need. It is also imperative to use ROUTE RITER to have it Delete all excess "Shapes" and other files not required by the "MINI" Routes.My RAM Version of the P.O.&.N. thus shrinks to 398 Mb and the "Heavyweight" N.&.J.C. to 675 Mb !The RAMDISK can be set up in a number of ways, SAVE a RAMDISK Image on Shut-Down, to be automatically loaded back into RAM at Boot-Up or manually anytime thereafter, providing of course RAM has been allocated for the RAMDISK at Start-Up ! The latter my prefered version because I want to choose which Route to RUN in RAM after Start-Up ! Manually COPYING one of the "MINI ROUTES" into the RAMDISK takes less than 1 minute, even with the larger ones !But from then on you will enjoy blindingly FAST MSTS STARTs, slightly improved Frame Rates and GREATLY REDUCED Jerking when data is being fetched during the running of the Route, but this time from a "Disk" in RAM which is significantly faster than even the fastest SCSI Disk ! Need a larger RAMDISK ? WIN-XP on my Lean and Mean FUN Machine does not need 768 Mb of RAM for it's basic functions and could be reduced to well below 512 Mb. Tried 256 Mb once, NO PROBLEMS when just running MSTS MINI ROUTES in the RAMDISK ! But at the same time running the Default MSTS in WIN-XP's 256 Mb would not be a good idea ? I would not want to be without the RAMDISK now ! You can imagine what it could do for Route Developers, Graphics Designers, CADCAM and other Data Intensive Processing, for the latter the whole idea came into being in the first place. Some would probably need all the RAM their Motherboards can support ?But being a VOLATILE Data base, lost in case of accidental Power Down, frequent SAVEs to PERMANENT Storage are a MUST, working with Data which changes frequently. But that applies to normal working with a conventional Hard Drive also !!! O t t o

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Ottodad -"I first tried it on my WIN-98SE 512 Mb Ram computer, no chance. WIN 98 can not cope with more than that, well not without a lot of hassle."
Regarding your quote, I'm very curious -
I built an AMD 1700 XP CPU, Chaintek motherboard, running Win 98 SE.
It had 512 SDRAM. (3 DIMM sockets, two filled with 256 MB RAM chips)
Added one more 256 SDRAM chip in third socket.
(It was on sale for $25, and I remember buying a 1 MB chip for $100, so I had to get it!)
Now had a total 768 RAM. (ALL cheap, generic, DIMM chips)
Never had any hassles or problems.
BIOS and Windows both recognize 768 RAM. (Whether Windows actually uses it or not is a different question!)
Anyway, I've read in some tech forums the same thing you've said -
that WIN 98 SE won't run with more than 512 RAM.
Since my rig runs quite well, and 768 RAM is recognized by Windows and BIOS, I'm thinking that maybe the WIN 98 "512 limit" is really an interaction of BIOS, Motherboard, type & speed of RAM, and Windows.
For what its worth...

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-20-03 AT 03:13 PM (EDT)

Bj,Otto did not say 98 won't work with more than 512Mb ram.
The ram disk had problems with 98.The 512Mb problem is in the way 98 calculates the cache it will use, and there is a very simple fix.Derek

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Oh.....
(he sheepishly replied).

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This ramdisk idea sounds like a good one. It would seem that a utility like Train Store could be adapted to be able to load a route into the ram disk, loading only what was needed to run individual activities etc.RegardsEric

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Hi Eric,Train Store does not work like that, it only takes out consist, eng and wag files.This makes if far quicker to load TS.Route Riter is the tool to use as Otto has said.Derek

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-20-03 AT 04:57 PM (EDT)

Had to scrap my reply to Eric, should have read Derek's first ! Thanks Derek for saving me some time trying TRAIN STORE on it's own, only to find that what needs trimming off a Route is best done manually and with the help of ROUTE RITER after all. There are also a few Folders in the Default MSTS Install, not really needed for a Stand-Alone MINI Route. ROUTE RITER can also be asked to COMPRESS all files to shrink the Route even more and as Derek discovered, there could be some which are not, no doubt left un-compressed by an accidental MSTS shut down ? But the next MSTS session should take care of them ?But on the other hand, doing the manual bit and ROUTE RITER first and then let TRAIN STORE deal with the Consists and Trainsets could save some time and avoid making the odd mistake taking a Trainset or Wagons out, found later to be needed by a Consist after all ? Done that yesterday ! I got a copy of a basic MSTS setup ready, so it only needs to be done once, to be re-used for new MINI Routes adding only the appropriate Route into it's empty \ROUTES\ Folder as and when and stored in it's own Folder for repeated use in the RAMDISK. Activity Editing can also be done FASTER in this MINI Route Folder, new Consists to be used added to \TRAINS\ before Editing. If this idea gets popular then no doubt somebody like Derek will come up with a small Utility to automate loading MINI MSTS Routes into RAMDISKS or TRAIN STORE can just pick them up and load them into the RAMDISK ?Another advantage of a RAMDISK is that although Corruption of Programs and Data in it can occur, it is not going to spread back to the Hard Disk unless phyically COPIED back to it ! Would be somewhat silly doing that after a problem ? I am looking forward to building my next machine soon, ATHLON 3 Gb, RADEON 9700 Pro or nVIDIA FX, 240 Gb SCSI Disk and as much DRR RAM as a MAX Cache / fastest FSB Motherboard can accomodate. Just picked up one of the most recent Comp.Mags. featuring a review of the latest MOBO's.That is going to be the Computer they will eventually bury with me with ? Not for a while though, I hope ! O t t o

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You are looking at things from the wrong perspective OTTO.Once you have train store there is no need to compress any route, because they will not exist in MSTS! You can have one route, with one activity running, see how fast that is!David

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Train Store already checks a route to see which trainsets and consists are needed to use an activity. A facility could be sdded to it to copy the loaded route and essential trainset and consist files to the ram disk.I realize that it can't do that now, but it already has all the information needed to copy the route to a ramdisk by copying the essential files and folders to the disk.RegardsEric

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Hello Ottodad:Can you detail the steps you took to get a route to function on a ramdrive? What files did you move; .wag? .ace? How does MSTS know that the files that were moved are not in the default folder locations any longer?Thanks.
Craig

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Craig,You can COPY MSTS to anywhere on your Hard Disk / Folders and as long as all the MSTS Folders are in that location, double-clicking on TRAIN.EXE or starting it with a Desktop Shortcut will run MSTS. The Registry does not care ! A single MSTS MINI Route does not need any of the DEFAULT Routes any more and can be removed, together with Consists and Trainsets not needed by the Route.All it then needs is to COPY this MINI Route into the RAMDISK in less then one minute and you are FLYING ! The N.&.J.C. is only 390 Mb thus trimmed and Route Ritered ! O t t oBelow are some of my new MINI Routes on Drive H:\ I am working on, to be COPIED for testing into the RAMDISK as and when. Have not tried running the Route Editor in the RAMDISK yet but would not be surprised if doing that would also show a marked improvment !

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Hi Otto:Hey, thanks for the reply. I'm going to give the ramdisk a try. If I stumble on any startling revelations, I'll let you know.Craig

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LAST EDITED ON Mar-25-03 AT 12:58 PM (EDT)

Craig,Editing my WIN-XP Boot.ini like this:

{boot loader}
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
{operating systems}
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home RAMDisk" /maxmem=768partitions my 1.5 Gb RAM into 768 Mb for WIN-XP and 768 Mb for the CENATEK RAMDISK BETA Software which is needed to create it but not yet available for all ? Another week they said.The {...} brackets are meant to be square ones, not showing because they are interpreted by HTML. Edit-B.t.W. The ROUTE EDITOR does not benefit from running in the RAMDISK, on the contrary, having lost half of the machine's RAM to the RAMDISK it seems to be slower ! O t t o

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