New and different cause for derailments

Yeah, on the approach to Johnsburg.Just being in the proximity to the bridge was enough to bring everything to a halt. Under, running parallel north and/or south of the junction, didn't matter. All down to timing, had me going tho'. Nice screen shot, btw. Paul

" I hear my train a-comin'"
Jimi Hendrix

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Anybody remember where the TSunpack patch can be found? I'm sure there was one somewhere but I can't find it, and I've never been able to unpack an activity with that .apk format. At the far end of the orange arched bridge where the AI traffic diverges I found a sudden grade transition from 1.05 to 0.15, never noticed that before since all the AI trains I tried never derailed. (Crashed into each other a lot before I finally got the signals sorted out, but since they run at an average 20mph in my activities they didn't derail on their own!)
Larry sent me an unpackaged beta a long time back, but it didn't have any traffic in it.

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>Anybody remember where the TSunpack patch can be found? I'm
>sure there was one somewhere but I can't find it, and I've
>never been able to unpack an activity with that .apk format. I fixed it manually
http://www.train-sim.com/faq/msts/activity.htm#6.5
Scroll down for other versions of windows.

--You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!--
Eh, where did my signature go?
Where has my favourite LUL train gone? Maybe it was sent for bolt checking again...

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Thanx, not-so-stoopid person, got it working. I coulda sworn there was an actual official patch from MS or KUJU somewhere, it ain't in the update #1 patch tho.
Anyway, got it working, unpacked and installed, found one no-no: When you make an activity, make new consists, never-never overwrite a default consist with a custom one. I don't understand the changes anyway, yard_one_player_consist.con appears to be the same as the original with the exception of the altered date.
In the few minutes I looked at it I didn't duplicate the problem, but did find the probable area where it's derailing:There's an abrupt grade change for the AI track here, possibly one of the AI trains is uncoupling and then derailing at this switch. Gotta fix that for V6, thanks for the heads up!

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Hi sniper, I have a copy still in its zip file. I dont know how to send it e-mail, but its yours as soon as I find out how. Paul

" I hear my train a-comin'"
Jimi Hendrix

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I think he has already solved it looking at post 4.

--You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!--
Eh, where did my signature go?
Where has my favourite LUL train gone? Maybe it was sent for bolt checking again...

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-02 AT 00:39 AM (EDT)

Yeah, I did, thanks again. The properties were "TSunpack.exe "I" instead of "%1" for some reason, now it works. Anyway, I was working on my son's new system, and while I was hammering the motherboard into place with a
16 pound sledge, I let the cabeeses activity run for about an hour and a half while the player engine was parked by the bridge at Port Ogden upper level. None of the AI trains derailed, tho. Are we talking about the same location? Possibly one of you guys could figure out which train (single geep 17 cars, dash9oil, dash9grain, 2dash9mixed, whichever), and exactly where it's derailing or uncoupling.

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3da7a70d74d97521.jpg

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I encountered this derailment once when I was working on the Caboose Roundup activity. I had entered Johnsburg from the east and taken the southbound leg of the wye junction. The derailment happened as I headed through the yard towards the high dock. I loaded the last activity save several times trying different paths from the wye to the dock. The derailment occurred on all paths. I cannot remember if an AI train was passing above. The derailment stopped occurring after I restarted TS.Maybe TS2 will have an AI track inspector.Larry

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bob hahn
Charter Member

Oct-12-02, 02:15 AM (EDT)

9. "RE: New and different cause for derailments"
In response to message #7

I lucked into a save where I can reproduce the derailment every time, within a few minutes. So I have been able to position myself at various points to watch for the culprit. I see no AI train, not coming from any direction. And yet I will get a derailment every time, at precisely 13:50:18.So I started up the activity editor and ran it to 13:50:18. Here is the layout when the derailment occurs. I am parked in Johnsburg, roughly even with the east-west track toward Fiddletown. I can see that tunnel, and the one to the Graneries. The AI trains appear to be some distance away on this diagram, but I do not know their "sphere of influence" as far as ending the activity.

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http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3da7bd8441247661.gif

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HA! Found it! Hee-hee, all this wierdness is due to the strange nature of the sim itself (ZEN question, if an AI train derails in the forest and the player isn't close enough to hear it, does it make a sound?) and the oddball nature of the activity editor. In the map window you right click and move the mouse to zoom it in and out, left click and drag - important - on a blank area of the map to move the map around inside the window.
If you accidently click on a loose consist instead of a blank area of the map, you drag the loose consist to a new location instead of moving the map!Hee-hee, don't feel bad, Larry, I can't count how many times I've done that. Anyway, here's a patch to try:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3da82f8247012679.zipPaste that into the \Activities folder, I deleted that sneaky little boxcar sitting in the middle of the AI tracks.
That's where all this really gets funky, I've seen wierd things like two AI trains passing thru each other like phantoms instead of colliding, I suspect that's what happens all the time when the player isn't within visible distance of the AI train. If they do derail out of the player's view, where do they go? Do little phantom wreckers from the Twilight Zone rerail everything and set it on it's way again, or just a giant model railroad guy reaches in and takes it off the layout? Maybe I shouldn't ask, the last guy nosing into the mysteries of MSTS is currently living with Jimmy Hoffa!
My guess is the AI trains pass thru this boxcar until the player gets within the "circle of influence", then the next one to come along collides with it. That's why I couldn't duplicate it, I was at the wrong end of the bridge and consequently too far away.

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bob hahn
Charter Member

Oct-12-02, 12:40 PM (EDT)

11. "RE: New and different cause for derailments"
In response to message #10

I went out there with a camera to snap a picture of this unfortunate event, and I must say that after all the trouble this has caused, this is one unsatisfying wreck. A little bump... and then it falls off the rails. Phooey. At least it could have gone flying, or rolled down a canyon or something.However, this does give rise to a new death-defying Activity called "Save The Boxcar." We can't just delete a $57,000 piece of capital equipment like that. Somebody has to go get it, and haul it back to Johnsburg, and make it back alive!

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3da84ec14f280068.jpg

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This problem came up with me the first time I ran it on the AE.
The message said that this consist was not letting the act run properly. So I looked for this consist-with a magnifying glass, mind you- deleted it and never had a derailment.
You guys should have asked me. lol.
Ted

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Whoops! Sorry about that. I'll fix and upload the activity. While I'm fixing it, I'd like to change it to use PO&N equipment. I know several engines are available for downloading, but I cannot find any cabeese. Jim, I've seen PO&N cabeese in some of your screen shots. How do I acquire one?Larry

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The only actual PO&N caboose is the one John Fowlis made for the PO&N1883 pioneer trainset, and it's one of those ancient wooden cabooses. I suppose I oughtta skin one, or maybe you could do it. Cadman ain't around much anymore, but he don't mind if anyone steals his PO&N CatDog logo as long as it's for freeware. Haven't seen much of Kevin Combs or Jon Davis much lately, but a lot of people have been reskinning their cabeese and I haven't heard any hollering.

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-02 AT 06:59 PM (EDT)

Hee-hee, well, THAT was fun, I had a clearance checking train with the tall yellow autorack cars and a C&NW safety caboose on it, so I just real quick reskinned the C&NW caboose to see what it would look like. Then I uncoupled the auto carriers and ran around them to compare the colors on the engine to the new skin on the 'boose, and found that I didn't pull forward far enough to clear the switch before uncoupling.
Being a certified certifiable, I went ahead and decided to see if I could shove the crummy clear anyway.
Hee-hee, took some serious pushing on that corner since the holding brakes don't release until the couplers engage, but nothing crumpled and it coupled up when I stopped and backed away.
Need to rust this up a bit and clone the shape & wag files, then I think I'm gonna upload it just for giggles.

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sn00py
Charter Member

Oct-12-02, 10:00 PM (EDT)

16. "RE: New and different cause for derailments"
In response to message #15

Heh, don't forget to trade paint on that side you shoved on. Might be good to add a long scar where your coupler pushed on it.

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bob hahn
Charter Member

Oct-12-02, 10:02 PM (EDT)

17. "RE: New and different cause for derailments"
In response to message #13

Hey, you accidentally created one of the most hair-raising, exciting, and hard-to-complete Activities ever made. I'm talking about "Save That Boxcar," where you try to go out there and retrieve that thing without getting yourself killed. Sound easy? It's not; the timing is very tricky. I got killed about twenty times before I pulled it off. Kinda fun, though.

Attachments

http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/User_files/3da8d3ff073601b1.jpg

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Ha, maybe you won't want the patch then? Adventurous soul, getting onto the AI tracks like that had to require backing into Northland Grain #2 (full tilt boogie to get there before the AI train came along to hit the boxcar!), waiting for the signal to turn red, then running the red to get onto the AI track. Since you like that, try these:http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/12611.html
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/12650.html
http://www.train-sim.com/dcforum/DCForumID3/12672.html

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Looks like there is a patch of grass on the left most track.

--You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!--
Eh, where did my signature go?
Where has my favourite LUL train gone? Maybe it was sent for bolt checking again...

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