Somebody was talking about the "game over" when you run a red signal in an activity, and all the discussions about PO&N signals were a long time ago, so I thought I'd clear up some confusion. PO&N6 is scheduled for release whenever I can tie all the loose threads up (I had a couple system crashes that set me back a few weeks, plus assorted screwing around with other things), and it uses the same signal logic. Here's the old thread covering how it works:http://www.train-sim.com/cgi/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=3909&forum=DCForumID6&archive=yesTo clear up one misunderstanding, the whole point of the inside-out bassackwards signal system on the PO&N is that running a red is NOT game over, the player only goes thru interval signals, never an interlocking. If you ever do approach a two-head interlocking signal in an activity, you got onto the wrong track somehow. (That's for the open ended activities included with the route, I haven't looked at any of the add-ons in the file library since I can never get TSunpack to work.)
Here's a typical junction, the AI traffic comes from the left track. The double head over the left track is for the AI, it's an interlocking (absolute) signal. The single head signal over the player track is an interval (permissive), all player track signals are permissive, no need to ever hit the TAB key and get "permission denied". The searchlight signal on the green post is a distant switch indicator, also advisory only.
The way this works, in a head on meet the distant signal will go red when the far switch throws for the oncoming AI train, if you run past the switch onto the single track section, you can back out of it or go Kamikaze and go for the cornfield meet, then it's game over. If it's an overtaking meet and the near switch throws against you, once you run past the base of the switch there's no going back, since the train would split the switch. Keeping it under 20mph you can go ahead and run forward to the next diverge, as long as the far switch for that hasn't thrown yet, and the distant signal will tell you that.
Once you're past the base of the switch onto shared single track, the AI dispatcher (HAL9000) will detect your presence and delay throwing switches for the AI trains until you clear.
If both switches are still set for you, it don't matter whether you go forward or back up, as soon as the AI is scheduled to arrive, HAL starts setting switches for him provided your train is clear of the single track section. This is an overtaking meet, as indicated by the distant signal still green, the near signal red since the near switch is set for the curve (switch window) and the interlocking on the other track showing red over green. If I were to goose the throttle and run ahead thru this red, HAL would stop setting switches, and I have an exit at the far end, so I could stay ahead of the AI train.
About a minute later the distant signal goes red as the far switch is thrown, running the red now would trap me on the single track section, no way forward or back. The only way out after that is to stay on the AI tracks traveling ahead of the AI train until the second merge, and hit the TAB at each interlocking, hopefully get a "permission granted", and exit onto the correct track at the diverge after that one.
About a minute later the AI train comes thru. All PO&N AI traffic in the default activities travels at 20mph, slowing to 15-18 depending on grade and curve.
Proper way to do this is to at least wait for the distant signal to clear, but this is an unusually long stretch of single track (fixed that for V6!) so the following AI train may arrive before this one clears the next diverge, forcing you to wait longer. Being a rebellious type, I'm just gonna run the red. Forget "TAB", I don't need permission, I'm an outlaw!
Running a red makes a reduced speed zone, so if you exceed 20mph on a bad section or tight curve, you'll derail. Since the AI train slows down on the curves you'll have to stay under 15-20 to avoid jamming your nose up his FRED anyway.
Once he clears the next diverge the switch resets to straight pretty quick, so I don't think it's possible to follow him onto the AI track. I have tried getting close and coupling onto him, but that always derails for me. After passing the next green and getting the highball, I'll bump up to 40 and see if I can beat him to the next junction and pass him. That sometimes takes a few tries, I end up following him thru 3 or 4 junctions before I get a long enough stretch of double track to leave him far enough behind.Well, on to the flip side, opposing traffic meets. For this one I come to a junction and get a flashing yellow, which would be OK except the distant signal is red.
Not being the brightest star in the sky, I elect to run it anyway.
I'm so busy admiring the scenery I'm not looking at the switch window, and fail to notice I'm going onto the wrong track.
Eventually the red signal and the front end of a Dash 9 wakes me up and I stop and back up. There's no intelligence in the artificial intelligence in this sim, so HE ain't gonna back up.
I got a clear signal to back onto the single track section, but;
Radio conversations with the AI dispatcher are limited to "TAB", with either "permission granted" or "permission denied" as his entire vocabulary, so you can't do the logical thing and ask him to temporarily reset this switch so you can clear the main quicker by pulling forward onto the other track. Since the switch behind is still straight, that's the only way to go.
After clearing the single track section back where I started, the switch is set for the curve and the AI train comes thru.
Once he clears and the switches reset, I get green and green distant, gotta scoot because;
With all my screwing around I delayed him so much that the next guy who was 10 minutes behind him is now right on his heels.Delaying the AI traffic in the PO&N5 activities by more than a few minutes can result in traffic backing up so far that you meet a continuous parade of them somewhere else, so it's a good idea to clear these single track sections as quickly as possible.Anyway, hopefully everbody has the idea now, I was really tired when I wrote the signals.rtf for PO&N5, and probably didn't explain the concept very coherently. I doubt the documentation will be any better for PO&N6, with dozens of screaming fans yelling for the next version I'll probably just provide a link to this and save some typing time.Jim Ward
Port Ogden & Northern
As UNreal as it gets.
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Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern [View All], sniper297, 02:04 AM, Aug-15-02, (0) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, Paul1953, Aug-15-02, 02:19 AM, (1) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, sniper297, Aug-21-02, 04:57 PM, (2) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, Coonskin, Aug-21-02, 07:02 PM, (3) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, sniper297, Aug-21-02, 07:45 PM, (4) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, smmille1, Aug-21-02, 09:46 PM, (6) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, Coonskin, Aug-21-02, 10:41 PM, (7) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, OTTODAD, Aug-21-02, 09:01 PM, (5) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, dvdhoven, Aug-22-02, 01:02 AM, (8) RE: Running the reds on the Port Ogden and Northern, OTTODAD, Aug-22-02, 07:24 AM, (9)
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