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How old are we all? 5?Pete, if you're going to accuse someone of stealing someone else's work, you need to let that person know BEFORE you contact the author.I'm CERTAIN that I have, somewhere, taken something from one of someone else's routes and not credited them. I don't know who it is, I don't know which objects they are, and I may not ever know. But like it says in my readmes, "anyone I may have forgotten in error."Obviously if someone sees something of theirs in one of my routes or trains, I expect them to contact me directly and allow me to repair my error.No one knows this except for Anthony and I, up to now, because NO ONE HAD TO, but when I first released the F40PH for BVE, I borrowed run sounds from one of Anthony's trains and forgot to credit him. In a professional, polite E-mail, Anthony calmly asked me to please credit him in the readme. I did so and had the file updated within 12 hours, if my memory serves me correctly.That's the proper way to handle things as these.Wulf unlocked and replied to the other post because he feels like you're out of line, which is very true. You start at the root of the *problem* and work from there...I find it very appropriate that Wulf reopened and locked that thread to post what he did, as Joshim, who I am certain Pete is referring to, may not even know that forum exists and thusly has no way to dispute this claim with his own proof.Taking someone 'to trial' or accusing them of anything without telling them is unjust... so bringing it to the attention of the forum is not a crime, especially because Joshim is likely to see it here.A nameless forum member accused Wulf of needlessly unlocking and adding something to that thread:Why don't you grow up and get on with your life?We all should have better things to do than going around trying to make trouble, and if we don't, go out and volunteer at a homeless shelter, or sweep your porch, or something. Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:
http://nvta.co.uk

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Now children... [View All], Tim Frost, 04:26 AM, Jun-01-03, (0) RE: Now children..., Tim Frost, Jun-01-03, 05:21 AM, (1) RE: Now children..., Routemaster J, Jun-01-03, 07:15 AM, (2) RE: Now children..., Wulf_9, Jun-01-03, 07:38 AM, (3) RE: Now children..., Zazzy_Bob, Jun-01-03, 07:52 AM, (5) RE: Now children..., Tim Frost, Jun-01-03, 07:50 AM, (4) RE: Now children..., petermakosch, Jun-01-03, 08:29 AM, (6) RE: Now children..., mailer_diablo, Jun-01-03, 08:36 AM, (7) RE: Now children..., Wulf_9, Jun-01-03, 08:41 AM, (8) RE: Now children..., Stooopid_person, Jun-01-03, 09:53 AM, (15) RE: Now children..., Routemaster J, Jun-01-03, 08:52 AM, (9) RE: Now children..., John O, Jun-01-03, 09:12 AM, (10) RE: Now children..., Zazzy_Bob, Jun-01-03, 11:13 AM, (22) RE: Now children..., petermakosch, Jun-01-03, 09:16 AM, (11) RE: Now children..., John O, Jun-01-03, 09:19 AM, (12) RE: Now children..., Wulf_9, Jun-01-03, 09:32 AM, (13) RE: Now children..., Routemaster J, Jun-01-03, 09:38 AM, (14) RE: Now children..., TomBoyRacer, Jun-01-03, 10:10 AM, (16) RE: Now children..., Rufus, Jun-01-03, 10:19 AM, (17) RE: Now children..., ChristopherT, Jun-01-03, 10:30 AM, (18) RE: Now children..., Wulf_9, Jun-01-03, 10:34 AM, (19) RE: Now children..., Zazzy_Bob, Jun-01-03, 11:08 AM, (20) RE: Now children..., Zazzy_Bob, Jun-01-03, 11:11 AM, (21) RE: Now children..., OliverMat, Jun-01-03, 11:23 AM, (23) RE: Now children..., Wulf_9, Jun-01-03, 11:29 AM, (24) RE: Now children..., Barney, Jun-01-03, 11:31 AM, (25) RE: Now children..., ChristopherT, Jun-01-03, 11:32 AM, (26) RE: Now children..., OliverMat, Jun-01-03, 11:39 AM, (27) RE: Now children..., Routemaster J, Jun-01-03, 11:45 AM, (28) RE: Now children..., Wulf_9, Jun-01-03, 11:49 AM, (29)

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I'd like to add that one of the top mods or Nels should issue a directive that so long as this forum can operate smoothly without any outside help, it should be permitted to do so.And by smoothly I mean that problems are dealt with quickly and appropriately, not that no one complains about such actions... just so that's clear.Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:
http://nvta.co.uk

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Right Peter lets setlle this once and for all.Fisrt of all you could have just as easily TOLD ME FIRST before squealing like a five year old!If ANYONE NOTICED that NO CREDITS were given for the PREVIEW ROUTE as it is a PREVIEW! It is still a work in progress, and I have used textures, objects and SOUNDS form other sources. These were to be credited in a README.txt file as usually found with other routes, WITH FULL CREDITS TO ANYONE ELSES WORK USED IN THE ROUTE.I did not include such a file with credits yet as I hven't finished yet! The Preview route along with all its problems went up quickly, and it is ther to satisfy public demand, just to keep you all happy.I have posted this at the JOWOOD forum.
>>>>>
Hello all, this is the DLR Route Author himself. Let me say first of all that I do like Traffic Giant very much but only have the demo. I have great respect for the authors and developers of that game. I have had ABSOLUTELY NO INTENT to be disrespectful and use someone elses work without permission. The work I have released will always be free, and it is currently only A PREVIEW ROUTE. This basically is a demo released to satisfy public demand. The route is for BVE and it uses other people's work as well as my own and if all of you notice, there was no credit to anyone at all, as it is only a PREVIEW. The inent was to create a readme file (like with all other routes) listing the credits for the FINAL VERSION. Once again I apologise for the use of the sound and if you wish, it will be withdrawn from the route, and will be replaced with my own recording. I wish to point out to Peter especially that if you look at the sound file of my route, there are sounds there from Anthony Bowden and they were not mentioned either. Also textures and objects from Steve Green and Anthony Bowden (for the c2c section of line) have also been used, and again not credited yet. But will be in the FULL release. This is only an add-on to BVE, and if you look at the BVE Developer Guidelines which I SUPPORT FULLY, all work from other sources WILL BE CREDITED. I wish to stress that the route was a PREVIEW and was done in a hurry to satisfy public demand. This is my first route, and I don't want to tread on anyones toes. Please visit http://joshimsbveroutes.gamehorizons.net/ to look at the work, and for links to other BVE related sites which contain the others peoples work I have mentioned.
Sorry for any upsets caused, I await your decision.
Joshim
<<<<<<The sound in question is a Police Siren. If YOU LOOK IN THE SOUND FOLDER you will find, my own recordings of DLR trains, that siren, and Anthony B's passing train flanges. If you look at the objcets you will see Anthony B caternary textures, Steve's 357 c2c train which he made for me and David R Colemans DLR train texture improvements made after Beta testing.Now its time for a break, expect the route to be out in a LOOOONG time, thanks Pete.

Joshim,
currently constructing the DLR Route for BVE & Oxford Street BUS ROUTE! Check out my website http://joshimsbveroutes.gamehorizons.net/

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Great.Thanks pete for pissing Joshim off and depriving all of us of the final finished DLR... now go crawl under a rock and don't come out till you learn how to behave in public.Josh, PM me, there are alternatives to the action you envisage.CiaoSaxon Locomotive Works - "The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer"http://www.zodiac-infosystems.co.uk/rail/bve

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 07:53 AM (EDT)

Yeah, nice one Pete. Are you happy now?!?!? Joshim, don't let that idiot put you off releasing your amazing work.

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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Hopefully this will serve as a lesson not only to Pete but to everyone... that actions in public places have public reactions.I don't feel its neccesary to go crawl under a rock, but take heed of what's happened here of late and make SURE you think long and hard before you act.Long story short: learn from your mistakes.Tim Frost
NVTA Subway routes for BVE:
http://nvta.co.uk

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 08:30 AM (EDT) by Wulf_9 (moderator)

F*CK YOU ALL!!! <== This contravenes Forum rules.
I PRIVATE MESSAGED THIS TO WULF AND JOSHIM NO ONE ELSE. THIS MEANS THAT WULF CANNOT BE TRUSTED. I HAVE PROOF. JOSHIM HAS DISTRIBUTED WORK THAT IS NOT HIS AND HAS NOT GIVEN CREDIT. It does not matter what version this is, the fact is, that he has done it.Nels and everyone must know that Wulf cannot be trusted! He said he would make it known that i cannot be trusted, how? Go on then Wulf- do your worst!
I cannot send the proof to anyone- otherwise i'll be distributing the file. Go to http://www.jowood.com/ and download the demo of Traffic Giant, the sound it number 45!The owners say it is okay, just so long as credit has been given, no credit!I am not whining like a child, i am getting all information i need, i needed to know how JoWood felt about it before i can tell Joshim. I asked about TG, he gave an answer. I told Wulf because he was a Mod, If mods cannot be trusted, then every PM i send now, i will just make public knowledge- as that is what has happened here, i PMed the two parties i thought i should and now, everyone is accusing me of messing everything up.
just proves how you all love to accuse, and love to get at people. We're all as bad as each other- can you not see it?
Pete

><> Pete <><
Do you even know what this: <>< is? What it means? Do you even care?

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>LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 08:30 AM (EDT) by Wulf_9 (moderator)
>
>F*CK YOU ALL!!! <== This contravenes Forum rules. http://www.crotrainz.com/forum/DCForumID1/777.html#7You're pot calling the kettle black. (F.O.A.D means F*** off and Die.)

http://koti.mbnet.fi/rogorox/

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So what? It's an abbreviation, not the whole sentence minus one letter.Saxon Locomotive Works - "The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer"http://www.zodiac-infosystems.co.uk/rail/bve

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>LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 08:30 AM (EDT) by Wulf_9 (moderator)
>
>F*CK YOU ALL!!! <== This contravenes Forum rules. And as said in the post in the General forum, one of the mods indicated that you're not supposed to edit anyone's post unless to anchor it.

--You are reading my signature now, don't waste your time reading it!--
Eh, where did my signature go?
Where has my favourite LUL train gone? Maybe it was sent for bolt checking again...

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 08:58 AM (EDT)

I refuse to swear and bring down all the principles that I have.Since you are unable to comprehend what I say, then I shall not contribute any further to this community.A PM that says>Do you have the game Traffic Giant?Then later...>read this (link to Jowood forum)is hardly the right way of communication.
Not even as to say in the first message, I think you have used a file from Traffic Giant without credit...THE whole point being that NO ONE WAS GIVEN CREDIT FOR ANYTHING YET AS IT WAS NOT RELEASED FULLY! AS SOON AS THIS ISSUE WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THE DOWNLOADS HAVE BEEN CHANGED SUCH THAT THE SOUND FILE CONCERNED IS REMOVED AND NOT LONGER CALLED UPON IN THE ROUTE FILE.Since some of you are incapable of understanding common sense, decency and even english, I do not wish to say anymore on this matter. The route will be released on an AS IS basis and incomplete. Do what you want with it and go stick it up where the sun doesn't shine Pete.
*EDIT*
Actually I will just stop, I won't give you the satisfaction of getting my work. Its time to sift the community. Its unfair to all those who are as idiotic as Pete and Anas. Then I will distribute it.

Joshim,
currently constructing the DLR Route for BVE & Oxford Street BUS ROUTE! Check out my website http://joshimsbveroutes.gamehorizons.net/

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Pete, grow up.You may as well just call off whatever you wanted to do the 150, I'm not putting MSTS stuff in it and don't want you involved in it whatsoever.FYI, I met Wulf yesterday at Crewe. I can safely say he is a great guy and is well worthy of being a mod. Great knowledge, dependability and trustworthy. If he goes then something is wrong here.Close the door on your way out pete. Don't come back, ever.

John
======================================================
The railway sound and movie network
http://www.rwysnd.btinternet.co.uk

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>Close the door on your way out pete. Don't come back, ever. Amen.

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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me like Anas? No, i do not Spam post, i was just finding out things from all sources before i started saying.
Work now,will be back at 12ish. talk more then.I see Wulf has not managed to make me untrustworthy, as i have done nothing to betray any trust-have i?

><> Pete <><
Do you even know what this: <>< is? What it means? Do you even care?

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<cough> HST upgrade </cough>

John
======================================================
The railway sound and movie network
http://www.rwysnd.btinternet.co.uk

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Pete,You're trustworthy are you? Check this :--------------------------------------------
>Pete,
>
>Ok, I've got it now. You have obviously put a lot of time
>and thought into your modifications, and I would like to
>thank you for your efforts in this regard, however I would
>probably not want to use the design as it stands, it looks a
>bit too much like a lot of other tabulated pages in a way,
>although at some point I realise that the SLW site will need
>redesigning. When this happens I might check deeper to see
>what bits and ideas from your update appeal to me, some of
>the graphics (like the LED arrows) are pretty cool, but what
>is that train you have shoehorned into the SLW logo? As for
>the text underneath, it looks more like a Gothic Rock band
>than a railway facility, lol Please don't take offence, I
>can be a bit sarky with my humour, I really do appreciate
>your input, and if I do use anything out of your package you
>will get full credit for it.
>
>Ciao
-------------------------------------------... being my response to your unasked-for "remake" of the SLW site. You notice how I tried hard to be polite and complimentary, even though I didn't particularly like what you had done.You replied with :--------------------------------------------
>LOL, thats ok. Its a class 66. You will have to tell me when you do >update your site, as i do like looking at new designs and things.
>Pete
-------------------------------------------... and there it ended, or so I thought, until I found a particularly nasty and defamatory post about me and my site from you on the now-deleted 'Bve Forum' topic in the General forum on this site.So, the evidence is gone which is a shame, but I am inclined to think that you will not get much cred. for your actions...
so, point proved, you are a lying deceitful little snake. Q.E.D.Saxon Locomotive Works - "The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer"http://www.zodiac-infosystems.co.uk/rail/bve

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 09:39 AM (EDT) by Wulf_9 (moderator)

And for those of you who don't know Q.E.D is Quad erat demonstrandum, IE. POINT PROVEN!

Joshim,
currently constructing the DLR Route for BVE & Oxford Street BUS ROUTE! Check out my website http://joshimsbveroutes.gamehorizons.net/

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QED? I didn't know that. thanks!
Now, pete. we all know you're young and eager to do BVE (we're all eager!), (Now I am offering a frank piece of advice) but it seems that you are lacking in certain social skills. i think maybe you should take time away from BVE and especially forums of this nature. go out into the world and explore life. It seems that if you carry on in this way then there will be trouble for all. just slow down and take stock of the situation please.

How can you eat your pudding if you don't eat your meat?

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Can anyone tell me now what's the matter here?
As I'm seeing lots of swear-words.... I would call this the BVE f*ck side! (Look "Waters gets mad live & rare (Pigs on the wing)".mp3)Rufus.

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>me like Anas? No, i do not Spam post, i was just finding out
>things from all sources before i started saying.
>Work now,will be back at 12ish. talk more then.
>
>I see Wulf has not managed to make me untrustworthy, as i
>have done nothing to betray any trust-have i? All you've been doing is jumping between here and CroTrainz,
posting messages about how bad the forum is doing, and how
fast it's going to fail. Despite your efforts and the efforts of certain others here, you've failed to incite enough trouble to
get this forum closed. That's chiefly through the hard work
of Wulf and I. I'd like to point out that in the 3-4 years of
moderating forums on Flightsim.com, the only time I had to remove
a post was when a hacker posted 100 messages of garbage. Spamming is certainly not the only way to get banned from this
forum!! Peter, the writing is on the wall - be a gentleman and
read it. If you have a website of your own, I suggest you go
to www.ezboard.com and create a forum for it. Make it BVE related,
or whatever you want and take all your rhetoric there! Anyone
savy enough to get a site on the web can link it to a public
forum. At least you'd be in the driver's seat and could moderate
it anyway you want. Christopher

Christopher Tarana
Ferroequinologist

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... and no doubt insult and defame us all from afar...Saxon Locomotive Works - "The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer"http://www.zodiac-infosystems.co.uk/rail/bve

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I can't believe what I'm seeing here (again......)Pete> I thought this whole matter was all closed, done and dusted. But, no, you just had to continue it and try to start the arguments and petty bitching again. But you weren't happy finishing it there, you had to go over to CroTrainz and start shouting off there. Then the Jowood forums. I mean, FFS what is your problem!!!!Joshim released his route on a PREVIEW basis! He said he would give authors full credit when he releases the final version of the DLR route. Do you notice how all of the other BVE developers are happy with this, it's just you, PETE (have we seen a worthwhile add-on from you????), who seems to have a problem with it.It is people like you, PETE, who are really starting to cause splits within the BVE Scene. Look at it like this. BVE is, at the end of the day, a game (well, simulation). WHY GET SO OUT OF YOUR PRAM OVER A GAME?!?!?!?Pete, for the sake of us all, sort yourself out now, and fall off that half-cocked soap box you believe you are so justified in standing on, you are making youself look like a TOTAL PRICK!!!I don't like getting sucked into this and swearing and shouting off, but PETE you are really starting to appear more foolish by the day. Take an objective view at what you are saying here, and just realise how petty all this really is!!!!For f*cks sake!

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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If you have a website of your own, I suggest you
>go
>to www.ezboard.com and create a forum for it. Make it BVE
>related,
>or whatever you want and take all your rhetoric there!
>Anyone
>savy enough to get a site on the web can link it to a public
>forum. At least you'd be in the driver's seat and could
>moderate
>it anyway you want.
Never before have I seen a better idea! The solution to our problems.PETE> Take heed, my man, and start your own forum! Then if we want to be insulted and moaned at over nothing, we'll come pay you a visit.

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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I think this should stop now! What started off as something small has grown into something enourmous.
Think!
Do you really want this place to close?Do you really want authors to stop producing work?Do you really want bve to slowly die?Because thats what will happen if these types of things continue to happen.....

Visit my Sims Forum - http://simsmania.proboards9.com

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Not while there's breath in my body, I can tell ya... the disruptors and squabblers WILL fail to take this forum offline, now or ever... so if you have any notion about stirring it up in here, just give up and go take your cyber-gatecrashing skills over to IRC where you will REALLY be told what's what, and hopefully earn your ISP a nice fat D-line in the process Meanwhile, we are back on track, ladies and gentlemen... let the trains roll CiaoSaxon Locomotive Works - "The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer"http://www.zodiac-infosystems.co.uk/rail/bve

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The more of this nonsense I see the less inclined I am to ever re-open BVE forum on CroTrainz.

Barney
www.CroTrainz.com

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LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-03 AT 11:42 AM (EDT)

>Because thats what will happen if these types of things
>continue to happen..... Oliver, enough! This forum is not closing anytime soon because
three or four people are throwing tantrums.

This the last post I'm going to lock. From now on I'm going to
remove any post that attempts to purposely disrupt this forum. There's no reason for the decent users of this forum to have to
wade through all this garbage! Effective immediately the Kindergarten
is CLOSED! Christopher

Christopher Tarana
Ferroequinologist

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Good Thats what I like to hear

Visit my Sims Forum - http://simsmania.proboards9.com

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Oh dear wait till he gets back form work (this is Pete I'm talking about here!). He will see the mess he has caused. he seems intnet on closing the BVE forum here as he is saying over at CroTrainz that is good and all that and he says it will fail! But it is he who wants it to fail and it starting to get to us! So all I say is (as the solution was with a certain Anas) is to ignore his posts if they are in anyway bad, or insulting etc...

Joshim,
currently constructing the DLR Route for BVE & Oxford Street BUS ROUTE! Check out my website http://joshimsbveroutes.gamehorizons.net/

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WB Josh Saxon Locomotive Works - "The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer"http://www.zodiac-infosystems.co.uk/rail/bve

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