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LAST EDITED ON May-29-03 AT 03:54 PM (EDT)

I will be watching what is going on in this forum for the next couple of weeks. Mind you, this is Train-sim.com, this is NOT the BVE forum once hosted. The rules are different here, do not set your own rules. There is standard forum rules I have posted in the general forum, you need to review them and read them carefully. If the things I have been hearing continue, I will ask Nels to revoke your moderator status and me or another mod will take over the forum.

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

--Power For You--

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To The BVE Moderators [View All], Macster, 03:52 PM, May-29-03, (0) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Rufus, May-29-03, 04:02 PM, (1) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Macster, May-29-03, 04:05 PM, (2) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Zazzy_Bob, May-29-03, 04:13 PM, (3) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Thomas Corcoran, May-29-03, 04:28 PM, (4) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Zazzy_Bob, May-29-03, 04:43 PM, (7) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Rufus, May-29-03, 04:30 PM, (5) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Central trains, May-29-03, 04:40 PM, (6) RE: To The BVE Moderators, petermakosch, May-29-03, 04:45 PM, (8) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Zazzy_Bob, May-29-03, 04:53 PM, (9) RE: To The BVE Moderators, kevarc, May-29-03, 05:02 PM, (10) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Zazzy_Bob, May-29-03, 05:06 PM, (11) RE: To The BVE Moderators, kevarc, May-29-03, 05:12 PM, (13) RE: To The BVE Moderators, John O, May-29-03, 05:11 PM, (12) RE: To The BVE Moderators, kevarc, May-29-03, 05:14 PM, (15) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Zazzy_Bob, May-29-03, 05:15 PM, (17) RE: To The BVE Moderators, kevarc, May-29-03, 05:17 PM, (18) RE: To The BVE Moderators, John O, May-29-03, 05:19 PM, (20) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Zazzy_Bob, May-29-03, 05:20 PM, (21) RE: To The BVE Moderators, smikes, May-29-03, 05:12 PM, (14) RE: To The BVE Moderators, kevarc, May-29-03, 05:15 PM, (16) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Thomas Corcoran, May-29-03, 05:34 PM, (24) RE: To The BVE Moderators, smile2evan, May-29-03, 05:18 PM, (19) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Anthony_B, May-29-03, 05:30 PM, (22) RE: To The BVE Moderators, kevarc, May-29-03, 05:33 PM, (23) RE: To The BVE Moderators, petermakosch, May-29-03, 06:01 PM, (25) RE: To The BVE Moderators, chris_rogers, May-29-03, 06:35 PM, (26) RE: To The BVE Moderators, NathanWhitington, May-29-03, 06:59 PM, (27) RE: To The BVE Moderators, petermakosch, May-29-03, 07:10 PM, (28) RE: To The BVE Moderators, Wulf_9, May-29-03, 07:21 PM, (29)

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Macster,BVE is a TRAIN SIMULATOR program, and if this website calls TRAIN-SIM, we have all our rights of host our BVE Train simulator routes here, isn't it? I talk to stand up for all BVE users who have posted lots of things at this forum (although I'm not a moderator).Rufus.

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LAST EDITED ON May-29-03 AT 04:06 PM (EDT)

Yes, you do, the file library has a area for BVE people to upload. What I am talking about is how the moderators are handling there position. You don't edit somebodies post or sig because it isn't BVE related. When you start getting complaints about how a forum is being moderated poorly.. that is when me or Nels step in and monitor what is going on.>Macster,
>
>BVE is a TRAIN SIMULATOR program, and if this website calls
>TRAIN-SIM, we have all our rights of host our BVE Train
>simulator routes here, isn't it? I talk to stand up for all
>BVE users who have posted lots of things at this forum
>(although I'm not a moderator).
>
>Rufus.

Brian E. Bundridge
NALW Quality Control Manager

--Power For You--

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Rufus, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick here mate!Macster, I actually fully support the Moderators of the forum as it stands at present. If you notice, the people who are complaining are the ones who usually cause the problems by being 1) overly pedantic, 2) posting inane comments that do not relate to BVE and 3) generally being a nuisance.The present moderators are wholly justified in locking the threads that have been locked. 9 times out of 10, the reason they are locked is because the thread has ran it's course and descended into a petty squabble between two or three members.I fully understand that things are "different" here, but if the moderators are not allowed some freedom in deciding what to lock/delete, etc, then what is the point having moderators? You may as well install automated Bots that delete threads if they meet certain criteria, etc. You can't police the police!!! I believe that if posts do not relate to BVE, they should be deleted!!! I'm sure that if I posted "The art of frying fish", "How to pick your nose efficiently" or my signature had a link to bigfatmammas.com, then you'd act and act swiftly.Wulf, Al, et al, you have my full support.

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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I personally think Wulf has done a superb job as moderator. This is a BVE forum and a topic does not relate to BVE then it should not be here and therefore the moderators have a right to delete it. That was a big problem at Crotrainz and it shouldnt happen here as well. If Wulf wasnt moderating the forum then noone would have cared what happens, I didnt see you jump in when Anus Hassan was making trouble.

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I agree with this entirely. The Anus Hassan thing ended up getting wildly out of control and the moderators (at that time) were nowhere to be seen. If Wulf had been moderator back then, it would have been nipped in the bud within a day.

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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Why I'm choosing my wrong end?Well, by one side Macster can have some of reason, because I'm in this forum for 10 days, and that can teach me not to talk of a thing I don't know or I don't hear in my life. But I don't see any trouble. BVE users helped me some times, when I don't know how to host my routes (an example), and I think that BVE forum can have other opportunity. We don't make anything bad to anybody.Rufus.

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Right the mods have done a superb job in this forum and could not have done any better. Without Wulf this forum would have just been petty squables here and there and BVE would hardly have a say. Im standing up for the Mods for this forum for the BVE Board. The people who complain are the trouble makers, we were fine before you came so we dont need you to police our forum when its already policed by brilliant Mods. Cant you just leave us. The posts ive seen edited or locked by wulf have been for the right purposes, i bet you havent even played on BVE, Im gonna stop writing now cos i could say alot more that might get me into troubleShaneJoin the TOC Game
koti.mbnet.fi/rogorox

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This is to do with my sig, i advertise my site here, and Wulf told EVERYONE, nnot just me, to change it, and it were not a nice, Change it please it was a CHANGE IT NOW
I will read the rules, and if it says you can, then i will, Wulf is not going to stop me, i know i have the top-bod's support (Thanks!)
Pete

><> Pete <><
Do you even know what this: <>< is? What it means? Do you even care?

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Pete, this whole thing is not a personal war against you! Your inane signature was just an *example* of something that needs moderation! The whole debate here is that people are trying to get away with acting like imbosils, and then complaining when their meandering nonsense thread gets locked!

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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Ah, ZB, you need to get your facts together. The begining of this was a thread, since deleted, where a person offered advice to another. The very next post was from a person to Wulf to ban the gentleman. Why, beats me, but there was no reason whatsoever for that post. I responded on wanting to know why he should be banned, all he did was offer a valid suggestion. We had a person that may have been of the same type. But after time he calmed down and was no longer a problem on the forums. Why could not the same have happen to this one. Wham, then next thing you know the thread was gone. That really p*ssed me off. There was no reason to delete the thread. If the post was left odds are that would have been the end of it. But it wasn't. Then the editing of anothers post on the appropriateness of the sig. That was ignorant. It should have been handled by PM. It seems that there is a very large degree of elitism and you are either with the "group" or against it.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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>Ah, ZB, you need to get your facts together. LOL! Doesn't warrant a response really. Unlike you, I do not live, breathe, eat and sh*t pedanticism, so I do not make logs of who said what, where and when. Look out of the window. Look at the trees. Look at the birds singing. Try going out there, it's not that bad really.

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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Actually it is today - hotter than hell, no rain in sight, and not a cloud in the sky. Even the birds hung it up for today. The squirrels finished of the last of the peaches and went into hiding also.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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LAST EDITED ON May-29-03 AT 05:12 PM (EDT)

Macster, just thought I'd say we need some way of perhaps modifing and stretching some rules here. The BVE board is prone to troublesome kids and adults sometimes due to it's free to download nature, we need some flexibility to calm this.Of late I've been noticing a few MSTS people actually coming in here to stir up the negative side of BVE and coax arguments. Kevarc being the biggest perpetrator. This is what you admins should be focusing on irradicating, not BVE moderators without whom the forum would go bonkers once again.Wulf is the best mod I've seen on a BVE forum for a long time! Long live Wulf!

John
======================================================
The railway sound and movie network
http://www.rwysnd.btinternet.co.uk

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I actually was looking at the forums to decide whether or not to try BVE out. But after I see the way the old hands treat people, no thanks.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Good riddance to bad rubbish then Kev, off you go..........

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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Ah, but with this kind of welcome, I think I'll stay. Thank you.Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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Geezoh, it's like an Anas Hassan v2.

John
======================================================
The railway sound and movie network
http://www.rwysnd.btinternet.co.uk

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But you've just said that you have no interest in downloading and trying BVE for yourself! So is your sole intention on staying here to uphold this unrest and cause more strain on an already pressured BVE community?

http://www.zazzybob.com
No longer the Home of the ZBRail Network

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I'd say it was a mistake to post this.You could have communicated privately to the moderators and avoided getting everyone involved in debating something that is not general BVE business.

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Wrong, how questions and "not the popular opinion" are handled is BVE forum business. Kevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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The forum has operated fine for some time now and yet it seems the users of the MSTS forum seem to want to cause trouble on here why is this? Do you have a problem with BVE as a program?. If you dont want to use BVE or take part in discussions then bugger off to MSTS. Wulf and the moderators have done a good job so why is there a problem, moderators are there to police the forums obviously everyone is not going to agree with decisions they make. If we lose Wulf or Al this forum will decend back to the bad days of Crotrainz which will mean yet another drawn out move to another forum, or worse, people will get so pissed of they will quit the scene, we have lost many good developers in the past for God sake lets not lose more. Come on people lets finish this crap and go about the business this forum was developed for, the discussion of BVE. And if you dont like BVE then sod off elsewhere.

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I also give full support to the moderators.I believe this forum complies to the purpose of it's existence i.e. BVE related matters.The forum runs decently now and we owe this to the moderators. Wulf has done a great job so far, he has reacted instantly in some awkward situations and has avoided the worse to come. It is better to deal with a spark than trying to extinguish a fire. Smile2evan

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I'm rather disappointed by what I'm seeing here. What are people trying to achieve exactly? If it's the removal of the BVE board then I think the objective will be achieved sooner rather than later.Now I've been a member of the Western BVE community and a developer ever since it was created in 2001, and I've seen what goes on on these fourms and also behind the scenes, and coming from someone has been on the receiveing end of trouble and unwittingly helped to create trouble in the past, it's about time that someone had the guts to put their foot down to try and bring a little order to the chaos - but it should be done in such a way that it doesn't antagonise people unnecessarily.While I do support Wulf's approach quite strongly, I wouldn't personally choose to make an issue out something like people's signatures, writing in txt msg style, waffling, pestering for release dates, etc - stamping on it causes more trouble than it's worth as has been made abundantly clear, and most of the arguments and complaints seem to come from posts which surround these issues. All people have to do is ignore a thread if they don't like it...There are more important issues which require attention of the moderators IMO, the above issues don't harm my enjoyment of BVE one bit, the arguments they cause however, do.If there's one real fault with the BVE community, and I include myself in this criticism, it's that some of us are too damn pedantic for our own good, this shows on issues like moderation, using files without an author's consent, responding to "issues" when they arise, etc - I think this nit-picking attitude is something which is very unhelpful, and it's something I'm going to try an avoid in future because I've that seen it doesn't work.Kevin, I don't actually disagree with some of the points you make, although I don't like some other points or your approach. For example the issue over having people heavily involved in a sim moderating is debatable and I can see where you're coming from, but personally I would choose to have a mixture of people experienced with the BVE community and those who can look at something from the outside and perhaps reach different conclusions working together, but I don't believe that just one or the other alone is going to benefit all concerned.Lastly, if people honestly believe that strong arm moderation is wrong and doomed to failure, can we please let people make their own mistakes and hence learn from them? If it doesn't work out, then you can always come back with a smug grin and say "I told you so", and if it does actually work, then that's that.Now I believe I'm partly responsible for some of the problems the BVE community has today, because of my stance on copyright and they way in which the old BVE Developer Guidelines were used and written - they caused arguments, divided the developers themsleves and created more problems than they solved IMO - I'm trying to learn from my mistakes by re-writing them and actually discussing things with poeple and being more fliexible and considerate to different viewpoints, and my attitudes are changing a bit as a result, so I'm aware that being stubborn and inflexible isn't going help anyone.I won't be involved in an argument, anyone who wants to argue with me instead of discussing things with me will be ignored. If you think I'm worth listening to then fine, if not, that's your choice. But arguments haven't historically solved problems in the BVE Community, understanding and compromise are more likely to succeed.Anthony.
--
www.railsimroutes.co.uk
www.bvetrains.co.uk
www.railsimroutes.co.uk/bvehelp/

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OKKevin Arceneaux
DEFAULT IS FOR DUMMIES
Cry havoc and Let slip the dogs of war.
Lone Wolf Activities Forum and Activity Packs are on www.3DTrains.com

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>Anthony's Bit hereNow there's someone who knows how to operate and moderate a forum.

><> Pete <><
Do you even know what this: <>< is? What it means? Do you even care?

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Absolutely, Anthony. Very well said.I have to say, I think that this forum is moderated very well, though. I am also a regular at uk.railway and the number of threads containing pure and simple foul-mouthed abuse to and about rail enthusiasts is unacceptable.Now, why does everyone rise to the incitements to an argument? Are we trying to see how many BVE forums can be destroyed in one year? If you disagree with a post, ignore it. If it is a major problem to you, contact it's author personally. But don't drag it out into the open.Can't we all exist here in harmony and carry on enjoying our hobby and thank our lucky stars we got such a good replacement for the Crotrainz forum?BTW, Wulf, hang in there mate. You've got my support at least.

Chris Rogers.
http://homepages.tesco.net/~ChrisM.Rogers

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Now then Children! I don't usually stoop to the level of replying to pointless threads like this, but I'm high tonight and I'm going to.Wulf is an extremely good moderator and from what i've seen there has been nowt wrong with the way he moderates. If you have a problem, rather than threataning the closure of the BVE forum, why don't you just close it and be done with it?Obviously you are here to provoke Mr "Kevarc" and uppon failiure to do so, it appears you have run to daddy, or so it appears from where I'm sitting.I'm not really bothered about what happens here, I have a life outside of my antique steam-driven PC, and I intend to carry on with it, regardless of whether you got out the wrong side of bed Mr Kevarc.

--
Nathan Whitington <><

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I ask that this thread and others like it, be locked, but left for others and ourselves to learn from.The Reason: It's not to do with the way Wulf_9 Mod's, it started off to do with my sig, as it advertises my site- yet my site has nothing to do with BVE. So what? This is not just a BVE forum. From reading the Rules, i am allowed to, so i am, with a new URL.I feel that its the thing, that now loads of people are up in arms about all this, that it got personal, i myself did in the other post. Wulf_9 is a good Mod, IMO a little quick to lock and delete post's but then its best to stop the fire before it begins.This is how the Crotrainz forum ended, this will not be how this forum ends!
Pete

><> Pete <><
Do you even know what this: <>< is? What it means? Do you even care?

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Pete,I don't care what site your sig advertises or links to, what I was talking about was reading that 'I'll never go to the toilet the same way again' and something about 'ploppies' on a train simulator forum..... come ON, I called it that when I was 5!!Ciaooh and btw your wish is my command...*CLICK*

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