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This isn't a blast.
A repeat of a 1995 tragedy in my city has happened again, this time, no horns.2 girls about the age of 12 were watching a westbound freight go by yesterday after school and when they saw the end, they stepped out into the path of an eastbound intermodal doing 100kph.There are no whistles, and the crossing is on a curve in both directions.The other girl only has minor injuries that are for now enexplained.
The one who was hit, was killed instantly and thrown threw the air.While this is partly human error on their behalf, I also think the community is at fault for trying to make trains as quite as can be.You don't mess with trains, especially since this same thing happened 10 years ago only a few crossings west.Now they are thinking of having a crossing guard at that crossing. Well think of all the other crossings that have kids running over them every day. Crossing guards might only solve the pedestrians, motorists, thankfully nothing has happened yet, but they need to re institute horns, so many trains pass through, and half of the cities crossings are on a curve, which means you won't see other trains.

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A blast from the past. [View All], SD75i, 05:15 PM, Feb-18-05, (0) RE: A blast from the past., GRS504, Feb-18-05, 06:07 PM, (1) RE: A blast from the past., LRC_lover_9th, Feb-22-05, 04:19 PM, (40) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-26-05, 02:18 PM, (41) RE: A blast from the past., andrewpickell, Feb-18-05, 07:11 PM, (2) RE: A blast from the past., The MP36er, Feb-18-05, 07:39 PM, (3) RE: A blast from the past., NewEnglandRailFan, Feb-18-05, 08:40 PM, (4) RE: A blast from the past., Erick_Cantu, Feb-18-05, 08:59 PM, (5) RE: A blast from the past., GRS504, Feb-18-05, 09:10 PM, (6) RE: A blast from the past., wmalder, Feb-18-05, 10:03 PM, (7) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-18-05, 10:50 PM, (8) RE: A blast from the past., Grimace780, Feb-19-05, 12:24 PM, (18) RE: A blast from the past., GRS504, Feb-18-05, 10:51 PM, (9) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-18-05, 11:10 PM, (10) RE: A blast from the past., adamb, Feb-19-05, 01:20 AM, (11) RE: A blast from the past., ns_sd70m, Feb-19-05, 02:12 AM, (12) RE: A blast from the past., bigbadCN_man, Feb-19-05, 09:06 AM, (13) RE: A blast from the past., trainmaster_1, Feb-19-05, 09:35 AM, (14) RE: A blast from the past., runaway_b_unit, Feb-19-05, 10:59 AM, (15) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-19-05, 11:35 AM, (16) RE: A blast from the past., delamaize, Feb-19-05, 12:15 PM, (17) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-19-05, 01:05 PM, (19) RE: A blast from the past., oakwaysd60, Feb-19-05, 02:05 PM, (20) RE: A blast from the past., Jonatan, Feb-19-05, 02:18 PM, (21) RE: A blast from the past., ns_sd70m, Feb-19-05, 03:19 PM, (22) RE: A blast from the past., wmalder, Feb-19-05, 04:05 PM, (23) RE: A blast from the past., ns_sd70m, Feb-19-05, 04:07 PM, (24) RE: A blast from the past., Jonatan, Feb-19-05, 05:16 PM, (25) RE: A blast from the past., The MP36er, Feb-19-05, 11:05 PM, (26) RE: A blast from the past., ns_sd70m, Feb-19-05, 11:24 PM, (27) RE: A blast from the past., tcain1, Feb-20-05, 01:28 AM, (28) RE: A blast from the past., ns_sd70m, Feb-20-05, 02:45 AM, (29) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-20-05, 01:02 PM, (30) RE: A blast from the past., tcain1, Feb-20-05, 02:59 PM, (31) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-20-05, 03:25 PM, (32) RE: A blast from the past., NW 1218, Feb-20-05, 03:26 PM, (33) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-20-05, 05:01 PM, (34) RE: A blast from the past., buzzbenz, Feb-21-05, 00:09 AM, (35) RE: A blast from the past., The MP36er, Feb-21-05, 12:52 PM, (36) RE: A blast from the past., singerbard, Feb-21-05, 06:55 PM, (37) RE: A blast from the past., adamb, Feb-21-05, 07:20 PM, (38) RE: A blast from the past., SD75i, Feb-21-05, 07:45 PM, (39)

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exactly. this stupid Whistle Restriction crap is BS. people could get killed by not hearing the horn. yea you could here the loudness of the engine. but the newer GE's are quiter and harder to hear. specially if the road is busy. I agree not only do they need to place crossing guards they need to dring back the horn and take out the WRB or whatever. enough is enough. with the Whistle Restriction, I think it should be for Privite Crossings only.Shawn
Guilford Rail System
www.gvrs.tk

"You got to ask your price to hire your league." - J.P. Morgan

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>but the newer GE's are quiter and harder to hearExactly why R/R's should bring back old Alco's and EMD's, not by crummy new GE's. -Andy the LRC lover
EMD all the way!!
MLT Lives!Member of the Mandatory CN SD60 No Trail Organization!

President of the "Get Rid Of The New BNSF Logo Club"

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The city police have now posted a paid crossing guard at this crossing for when the kids go to school, during lunch hour, and after school.He will only be there until june, great when every kid in brockville is out and about there wont be one.That makes sense.Crossing guard won't fix a thing,

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-18-05 AT 07:12 PM (EST)

What specific safety devices are located at the crossing in question? However tragic this incident was, the FRA and Transport Canada have developed a very stringent set of guidelines which allow for the cessation of whitsling at public crossings at grade. If these guidelines haven't been met, the trains are still required to sound the whistle. If people are killed or injured at a crossing which has been silenced is it the fault of the FRA or TC or is it the fault of the ignorant people that continue to ignore the safety devices at the crossing?I guess it is a lot easier to pin the cause of the incident on the lack of whistling rather than ignorance or lack of education...Edit: TyposAndrewBC Rail Squamish Subdivision for MSTS

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OK, if there are no warning devices on this crossing, it's 80% the girls' fault. If there are, then it is 100% their fault. I feel no remorse for people who win the Darwin award.Joe LeMay

One of us Railfans from Downers Grove, IL

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Yeah that whole quiet zone thing is a genuine load of CRAP!They've been trying to do that around here forever and its never happened or will ever happen. They always have an ad in the local Newspaper saying "If you don't want loud train horns bothering you in your sleep, call the Housatonic Railroad at ###-###-####" Which cracks me up because there is only one train that runs at night and its usually at around 10:00, so people are mostly still up.My heart goes out to the girls involved, their parents, the witnesses that saw it happen, and the train crew member.Later
-Dave, Secretary of the Scrap the SD60F federation!

Former ALCo Schenectady, NY shop switcher #5, in North Creek, NY

You can e-mail me at davej8010@aol.com -or- hrrc_7324@yahoo.com -or- feel free to aim me.

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There are no warning devices and it is on a curve and horn blowing is prohibited. How is it 80% the girl's fault?It's the fault of the selfish people who demand that trains don't honk their horns. They'd rather have a bit of silence over safety. Morons."The F59PHI and Genesis are the lamest excuses for locomotives Amtrak has ever operated - accept it and move on. Hug an F40 before it's too late!"

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They have Whistle Restriction in Portland Maine. like WTF! its a heavy residential area. lot of people walk across. I said give us the right to honk the train horn at cross's. also Portland banded loud motorcycles. whats next. ban music?! ban loud mouth people? BAN CARS?! you goverment people dont learn. think safty not money... RETARDED GREEDY PEOPLE!Shawn
Guilford Rail System
www.gvrs.tk

"You got to ask your price to hire your league." - J.P. Morgan

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I just watched the CBC report on the accident and the fact is that the crossing is gated. The report makes it fairly obvious that the girls attempted to cross against the signals.Bill Alder

Resurrecting the KVR one pixel at a time.

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Sorry for mis-understanding, but yea it is gated and all, cause the trains go through at like 70-80mph ... but they stepped out onto the tracks before the gates and bells were done their thing .... soo they didn't hear the 2nd train, stepped out into its path thinking the way was clear.

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I was instucted one time by a CNR employee that, at a multi-track crossing, to ALWAYS wait until the lights have stopped flashing and the gates are in the fully upright position before proceeding across the tracks. People forget that the lights don't indicate direction of the train. Just that there is something on the track within a certain distance of the crossing.Reminds me of a story from above mentioned CNR employee. He was working on a crossing somewhere in the middle of Saskatchewan. Clear day and excellent visibility. An RCMP officer parks near where he is working for the sole purpose of issuing tickets to those that didn't stop for the flashing lights. Seems a few people learned the hard way that day that flashing lights mean stop even if there is no train.Cheers,
Gary Cameron
Grande Prairie "The last civilized stop before Alaska," AB
Canada

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yes. but there was another train that they did not know about. so they still should let the trains blow the horn!Shawn
Guilford Rail System
www.gvrs.tk

"You got to ask your price to hire your league." - J.P. Morgan

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It's so true man, but people are ignorant .... all along here they want them silenced .... maitland, prescott ann beyond that ... so there would be like a 50 mile no horn stretch.That better not happen.

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If a person is hit standing on the track then it is clearly their fault...Not to say what happened isn't a bad event...

Adam
www.trainweb.org/aussiepix/
o, why can't I live a life for me?
why should I take the abuse that's served?
why can't they see they're just like me
i'm not the one that's so absurd
Ministry - Everyday is Halloween

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EMDs with K5LAs = STAND BACK! I don't like the new noise ordinances. The reason that trains have horns is to warn people that the train is coming and to get out of the way. Nevertheless, I would still look both ways before walking across a railroad crossing. Driving a train is a lot better then having the train drive you!

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Has anyone ever checked out the Operation Lifesaver page( sorry, no link) How many people dying is it going to take for people to learn trains are dangerous? Too many. Can't see how a crossing guard will help, unless the girls didn't look to see if a train was coming. A crossing guard coulden't see any farther down the tracks than anyone else.
How old is the rail line? If the rail line is older than the houses, the people shoulden't have moved there. Either way someone was lost, that I am sorry for. It is the same with seatbelts, bicycle helmets and many other things, including train horns, they save lives!Morgan-" Look, Listen, Live"

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Neighbours bitch and complain almost on anything, they complain the trains are fast, loud and long, yada yada yada. Without the horn hell there would have been more train - pedestrian accidents, if you can remember this, they wanted to silence bells at railway crossings so the crossing will go off, the bell goes, then stops when the gates are completely down, how stupid is that, now this, come on, the morons who implemented that don't even have a positive mind to have trains sound the horn or even pass by through there neighbourhood its always negative (then why did ya move therein the first place?????????)....if one of there family members which implemented the horn ban was hit by a train because the hogger didn't blow the horn at a crossing prohibiting the sounding of the whistle will it change the minds of othersand those that implement it? Will there be debates on whether or not they should reinstate the horn sounding?Mike, Foreperson of scrap the SD60F confederationFuture CPR Locomotive EngineerPontiac Grand Prix GTP - Built For Drivers"A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof. And when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven" - Jean Chretien

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Too many people like to complain about everything they can think of. I'm sure that they don't even really care about the bells and whistles, it's just something else to complain about and make someone else's life miserable. And people get killed because of it. If people are worried about safety and this stuff is happening, then horns are very necessary. It's too bad that some people still won't make sure there is no train and get killed anyway.

C h r i s

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you know they did do that here in brockville at the crossing where the train station of all things is ... once the gates were down they stopped, but they took that away ... so its a constant ding ding ding but see when i am filming, i hate having to go 15 minutes out of town just to get a train blowing its horn.sure there are great places in town to film but its boring when you have not a hornbut,. you know the masses ahve spoken .... so lets get em all learned that a train can overpower them.... lets see, hope the drain derails and smokes there house in broad daylight...
then they be like we didnt even hear it

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what I don't understand is if people are having an issue with train horns why are the living near the tracks? I mean it isn't like the tracks just appeared there one night. anywyas, I have a idea for a solution. why don't the railroads do like the cars in europe do. have 2 horns. they have one horn the use like ours and another that is for passing. (at least it was like that when I was there in 99)what they could do it have the orginal horn for open, non populated spaces, and the have a higher pitched, single chime, and quieter horn for city use. use something loud enought to get people near the tracks attention bt quiet enought that people a good distance will not be able to hear it as well, then just instruct the engeneers to use them is shortened versions of the standard grade crossing patterns. either that or just issue ear plugs to the people who complain! or move them to the part of alabama where I am at, I swear the trains have been abducted by ailens, there is lots of tracks, but no trains. as for me thought I'd gladly trade someone, I'll go live near the tracks, they can come to "redneck hell" hehe

Delamaize
"Long Live High Speed Rail In The USA"
"Member of the Get Rid Of The New BNSF Logo Club"

Head Locomotive Builder Extraordinaire

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-05 AT 01:09 PM (EST)

Newest info is that the mayor is willing to do anything necessary to make crossings safer.He is willing to bring the horns back!! BUT ... thats sucks now cause i move out for college in the fall. But as ling as they are made safe.There are like 13 crossings in the city .... and the trains blow through ... and like i said, its 2 tracks, and its on a curve mostly ... soo we'll see, ill keep you posted.It makes me wonder how people can actaully make fun of me or mayube you people for that matter about our knowlwede of trains. If you see us near the tracks, you can be sure we knoe what we are doing, we have scanners, timetables and we understand the signals and such.These people don't and have no respect for the speed and weight.
So, i have taken a friend railfanning with me once, she was from Germany, and when we were that close to it going by at like 65mph.She was sooo amazing at howe big, long and especially the speed for something that big was. That gave her a respect for Canadian trains.People think they are no different from a transport. OK!Then people at work talking about how they always would play and climb on, under the trains when they were kids.Try it now, they are not 45 cars, and light plywood cars ne more.

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Tell ya what. I am always teased at school that I like trains to much. BIG WHOOP! Its the fact that the kids are just showing off their stupidity when they say "How could you like something that kills people" WTF is up with that? I'd just laugh so hard if I read when I get older that they got killed crossing the tracks. They don't have ANY respect for these machines period. Neither do many people, and the fact that they think they can sue the railroad for "killing" their loved ones, think again, they killed themselves.-NickCentral Illinois Locomotive Works Founder
CILW's Web Site is http://home.insightbb.com/~rkelsey/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-05 AT 02:21 PM (EST)

If I was an engineer and I was complaned at for blowing the horn, then guess what, I'd blow even longer, louder and more often.
Engineers, blow your horns regardless of what people say! That's what I'd do.Edit: And if they'd threaten to sue me, I wouldn't care as I'd blow the horn to keep people safe./JonatanSteam rules!

Train gifs from Dans Railroad Gif RoundhouseNever trust computers. If you do, they will betray you.I'm the steam freak, ph34r me!!My E-mail jonatan.gronoset@telia.com

Proud member of the Anti-Payware Club.

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Do trains have horns in Europe?

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I'm pretty sure they do. What I'm not too sure about is bells. I remember reading somewhere that they don't but that could just be a country specific thing.Bill Alder

Resurrecting the KVR one pixel at a time.

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I was just wondering because on a lot of pictures of European locos, I don't see any horns.

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Might be because they're hidden behind the streamlining and stuff or placed at unusual places./JonatanSteam rules!

Train gifs from Dans Railroad Gif RoundhouseNever trust computers. If you do, they will betray you.I'm the steam freak, ph34r me!!My E-mail jonatan.gronoset@telia.com

Proud member of the Anti-Payware Club.

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OK, well obviously these girls crossed when the gates were down, so it's their fault whether the train horn blew or not. The gates and bells are just like the TRAIN HORN! DUH! Trains should only have to blow if there are no gates or lights. Maybe those girls were dropouts from kindergarten and never saw the Operation Lifesaver presentations.Joe LeMay

One of us Railfans from Downers Grove, IL

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As far as I'm concerned, what they did was equivalent to walking across an open drawbridge. It's like if the gates are down, don't step out on the tracks; if the brige is up, don't try to walk across it! Mommy and daddy should have warned their daughters that the real-world isn't a fairy tale and that not everybody (especially those who don't use their brains) lives happily ever after. This is a tragedy and I feel sorry that a seemingly nice human being had to lose their life and two others (on the train) had to live with the horrors witnessing it. But when you get right down to the point, Mr. Darwin's laws reigned supreme in this case and a person who made the wrong choice at the wrong time recieved the maximum sentence for breaking the law of natural selection. That's just life.

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One thing I noticed in the video of the 18 wheeler getting hit by the Pacific Surfliner the other day, is from the time the gates started to come down to impact was 19 seconds. That is not much time to react, in this case the girls were walking across so, assuming they began with the gates up after the first tain passed, If the gates started to drop for the second train they may have not had the time to get across, or may have froze for a couple of seconds. Does anyone know the timing of the gates at this xrossing from when they start coming down and the train passes? The crossings I've been through in the Northeast, the gates come down long before the train passes at least a minute maybe more. It holds up traffic but it seems safer. Even with that though there are still accidents. With the increase in speed of these trains, especially passenger, the gates should be set to come down sooner. Atleast a minute and quite possibly longer. Especially with xrossings with pedestrian walkways.

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If it were up to me, every train would have to sing it's song as it went through every crossing and the gates should at least give a 30 second advance warning before the train comes. Pedestrians and drivers also need to do their part by not doing stupid stuff like running across in front of a train or driving around the gates. Racing a train and winning has no real reward while racing a train and losing usually has very dire consequences. Don't do it!

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I live about 15 minutes away from this crossing.IU live on a rural road that on weekdays sees 10 VIA rail passenger trains doing around 80mph and a local freight (there and back).They installed gates after a moron constuction worker, whose company waws working on the crossing, said yea its ok to go through .... when the people got to the tracks and breifly stopped to look at the equipment, WHAM smoked by a via.Now the gates go down after about 10 seconds after the lights start. About 6 seconds later the train goes. Freights well you sit there for like a minute ... but with the VIA's i think it should be longer

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-20-05 AT 03:00 PM (EST)

Now the gates go down after about 10 seconds after the lights start. About 6 seconds later the train goes. Freights well you sit there for like a minute ... but with the VIA's i think it should be longerYup! That was an accident just waiting to happen! With those timings, there's no way those girls could get out of the way that fast, if they already were crossing. We're all Railroad buffs, so we never want to blame the railroad for these accidents, but as these timings show, the margin for safety is too narrow. Blowing the horn may or may not of made a difference here, it's hard to say. If those gates go down sooner though, those girls probably wouldn't have started crossing the tracks.

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You miss-understood that.The 10 second thing is by my house, not where the girls were hit.
The crossings in town have a device that triggers the gates based upon the speed of the train.Where the people got hit my my house, at the time there was no gates, the construction crew guy said they were on cause of what they were doin, not a train. (construction guy at fault)here, they crossed BEFORE the gates went up, so the opposing train's front end was hitting the corssing seconds after the original train's rear. They never made sure it was clear.So like i said, the slower the train, the closer it is until the gates go down, faster, the gates go down long before the train gets there

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All I have to say is April Fools Day this year is gonna be fun.

John Means
MASW Founder and President
The MASW site is www.meanslocoworks.com
www.blueridgerails.com
Illinois Railway Musuem Diesel Shop Volunteer, current project: CB&Q SD24 504

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W/ how close the crossings are you dont need an l-l-s-l it can be one looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong l

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LAST EDITED ON Feb-21-05 AT 00:11 AM (EST)

> time the gates started to come down to impact was 19 seconds. That
> is not much time to react, in this case the girls were walking
> across so, assuming they began with the gates up after the first
> tain passed, If the gates started to drop for the second train
> they may have not had the time to get across, or may have froze
> for a couple of seconds.Well, first off, that's not what happened - they went across while the gates were still down.But - 19 seconds not enough time??? Assuming you were SLOW and could only run a mile in 10 minutes, by my calculations 19 seconds later you could have run 167.2 feet! That't put you well over 100 feet on the OTHER side of the crossing - and most people run much faster than that! It may not sound like much, but believe me, 19 seconds is PLENTY of time!Now, as to the whole "horn/no horn" thing....
WHY do people over sensationalize everything when it comes to trains?Think about this - do you honk your horn in your car when you approach an intersection or pedestrian crossing? No, of course not. If those girls had stepped into a road after a car had passed and gotten hit by a vehicle going the other way in the next lane, no one outside of the local community would have heard anything about it. No one would be saying "Cars need to honk their horns when approching a pedestrian crossing or intersection". No, we'd be like "What were you doing in the road???"Why is it, then, that SUCH a made deal is made about the same type of thing, only with a vehicle that is MUCH larger, and therefore should be MUCH easier to see?? (Think about it - if a bus was in the lane nearest you, you think a Geo Metro would be easy to see in the lane next to it?)Also, you can't have THAT sharp of a curve with the train, or there'd be no way it could be going any speed at all without derailing!I feel bad for the girls and the families and all, but let's face it - this was nothing more than a simple case of impatience. They for some reason must not have felt they could take the time to make sure all was clear, and paid the ultimate price for it. It's just easier for people to blame someone else than fathom that something so simple could be the REAL blame....----------- BUZZ -----------

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Well said!Joe LeMay

One of us Railfans from Downers Grove, IL

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You're comparing apples to oranges. Automoblie intersections and rail/road intersections are not alike.The difference is that you can stop your car damn near on a dime. I have had cars and people shoot out in front of me and gotten stopped without hitting them.The train cannot stop that quickly, and ANYTHING the train can do to alert those in its path that it is coming is something that should be given serious consideration for use: ditch lights, oscillating lights, crossing gates, bells and yes, horns. While some reasonable limitations can surely be instituted, a blanket "let's keep it quiet" is foolish.

Kevin N Payne *aka* singerbard
Email: nikolaibard-*AT*-yahoo.com
Yahoo Messenger: nikolaibard
MSN Messenger: singerbard

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>The difference is that you can stop your car damn near on a
>dime. I have had cars and people shoot out in front of me
>and gotten stopped without hitting them. What if its an intersection with a local road and a highway, then its a very similar situation, at 100kph you can't just stop.Anyway, while it may seem like common sense to look before we cross the tracks, and never stand on them and the like, to other people they probbably dont realise these things. It isnt common sense to them. All of us know that if a ball goes onto the road we would look for cars and then get it. Young kids just run across regardless. Its common sense to us, not to the kids. They dont know the dangers and neither did these kids on the tracks...

Adam
www.trainweb.org/aussiepix/
o, why can't I live a life for me?
why should I take the abuse that's served?
why can't they see they're just like me
i'm not the one that's so absurd
Ministry - Everyday is Halloween

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I just learned this, Operation Lifesaver was there only a few weeks ago speaking about train saftey.

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