Best OS For MSTS

Which of the current operating systems would be the best option for MSTS, and will cause less of a problem when installing and running MSTS programs. 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, or XP Home Edition. Im scared to get XP home because of the problems I have heard about that will arise, but I do want to go with it. Due to tax return season, I will be getting a new cpu built. So far I have accumulated a AMD XP1800,
ATA 40GB HD (7200rpm), 256 ddr ram, and vid card undecided. Would a gefore 3 or 4 be the best. I saw a GeForce 4 64mb ram card that I wanted, but i'd figure to ask the board first. As far as case, cooling fans, etc. im gonna let the builder go on that. How does this stand for a MSTS system, good or bad. It will run me about $700
and I figure thats a good price. Will this be well spent or any suggestions on how to maximaze the most for the buck? Thank you all for your input.

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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Best OS For MSTS [View All], ssw_96, 04:06 PM, Jan-19-03, (0) RE: Best OS For MSTS, bnsf1959, Jan-19-03, 04:41 PM, (1) RE: Best OS For MSTS, gryphonone, Jan-19-03, 04:55 PM, (2) RE: Best OS For MSTS, ssw_96, Jan-19-03, 07:00 PM, (4) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-19-03, 07:31 PM, (6) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-19-03, 07:01 PM, (5) RE: Best OS For MSTS, gryphonone, Jan-19-03, 11:27 PM, (10) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-20-03, 00:53 AM, (11) RE: Best OS For MSTS, KC_Jones, Jan-25-03, 08:32 AM, (24) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-19-03, 06:56 PM, (3) RE: Best OS For MSTS, ssw_96, Jan-19-03, 10:00 PM, (7) RE: Best OS For MSTS, ssw_96, Jan-19-03, 10:01 PM, (8) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-19-03, 11:12 PM, (9) RE: Best OS For MSTS, chucksc, Jan-20-03, 01:30 AM, (12) RE: Best OS For MSTS, ssw_96, Jan-20-03, 04:06 PM, (13) RE: Best OS For MSTS, chucksc, Jan-20-03, 04:30 PM, (14) RE: Best OS For MSTS, ssw_96, Jan-20-03, 09:30 PM, (15) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-20-03, 10:13 PM, (16) RE: Best OS For MSTS, ssw_96, Jan-20-03, 10:41 PM, (17) RE: Best OS For MSTS, KC_Jones, Jan-25-03, 08:48 AM, (25) RE: Best OS For MSTS, Stooopid_person, Jan-21-03, 04:18 AM, (18) RE: Best OS For MSTS, BNSF4723, Jan-21-03, 02:54 PM, (19) RE: Best OS For MSTS, Macster, Jan-21-03, 04:15 PM, (20) P4 at 3.04 NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, ssw_96, Jan-21-03, 05:44 PM, (21) RE: Best OS For MSTS, his hobby, Jan-24-03, 10:11 PM, (22) RE: Best OS For MSTS, pix_man, Jan-24-03, 11:22 PM, (23) RE: Best OS For MSTS, KC_Jones, Jan-25-03, 09:08 AM, (26) RE: Best OS For MSTS, pix_man, Jan-25-03, 09:49 AM, (27) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-25-03, 10:59 AM, (29) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-25-03, 10:32 AM, (28) RE: Best OS For MSTS, pix_man, Jan-25-03, 01:48 PM, (30) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-25-03, 04:46 PM, (31) RE: Best OS For MSTS, ssw_96, Jan-25-03, 10:56 PM, (32) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-25-03, 11:32 PM, (33) RE: Best OS For MSTS, ssw_96, Jan-26-03, 08:49 AM, (34) RE: Best OS For MSTS, dgauci, Jan-26-03, 02:16 PM, (35)

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LAST EDITED ON Jan-19-03 AT 04:56 PM (EST)

I have no problems with Window XP on my system and it runs M$TS very good. But, if you upgrade from Window 98 SE to Window XP, I don't know about that. Hopefully, someone can answer that for you. It even run M$TS better since I got my RailDriver. I do get crashes once in a while. I would like to double my ram to 512mb. I am currently running at 256mb of ram. A lot of people tells me that 512mb would run M$TS much better. About the video card, GeForce 4 would be your better choice (in my opinion). I'm planning on getting a new GeForce video card and more rams. My specs is in my profile. I hope this helps if any.
Ken
"United We Stand."
"Love America or Get Out!"
(F-Units are courtesy of Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society)

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I run windows ME and it isn't exactly the best, might want to keep that in mind because there are bugs in the O/S that microsoft will never address. As a network admin at a well known university told me Windows ME pretty much turned out to be a lame duck, look at Microsofts webpage on Win ME technical issues and youll find scads of workarounds for all sorts of problems, seems funny how they dont compile all this on a CD and issue it to all registered users, but then that would cost Bill too much money? John

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whcih would be better ddr ram or sd ram. If I understand correctly ddr is twice as sd ram. So 256megs of ddr ram would be equal to 512 megs of sd ram. So with that equation, would 256 megs of ddr be a good start.

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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>which would be better ddr ram or sd ram. If I understand
>correctly ddr is twice as sd ram. So 256megs of ddr ram
>would be equal to 512 megs of sd ram.256Mb of DDR SDRAM would be the equivalent of 256Mb of SDRAM. They both would have the same data storage capacity. The doubling your referring to is the rate of data transfer throughput. In other words DDR SDRAM is twice as fast, but not higher storage capacity.512Mb's or more is still suggested, especially for MSTS.

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Windows ME was a revenue generating stop gap measure while Microsoft completed Windows XP. My advice to any user with Windows ME is downgrade to Windows 98 or upgrade to Windows XP. If your forced to use Windows ME you have my sympathies.

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I do not know of problems converting Win ME to Win98 or 98SE but I do know of issues in converting up to XP. It was suggested in going up from WinME to XP it would best be accomplished by reformattting the hard drive and doing a full install of XP to gain the full reliability of the new O/S. I'll be doing this as soon as I can afford it. John

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You would need to reformat and re-install the new operating system no matter what you do. To go from Windows ME to Windows PX or Windows 2000 requires reformatting the drive and installing clean. To go from Windows ME to Windows 98SE requires reformatting and installing clean.Despite what anyone tries to tell you, installing Windows PX without first re-formatting your hard drive for a clean installation is just asking for stability problems.

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KC_Jones
Charter Member

Jan-25-03, 08:32 AM (EDT)

24. "RE: Best OS For MSTS"
In response to message #5

Been using ME for two years with no problems. Love it.

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>Which of the current operating systems would be the best
>option for MSTS, and will cause less of a problem when
>installing and running MSTS programs.Windows XP would be your best option, it's the most stable OS Microsoft has created yet. Windows XP and Windows 2000 handle memory the best, (with MSTS the more memory the better), but Windows 2000 would be comparatively expensive for a home user with no advantage over Windows XP Home. (The horror stories you sometimes hear about Windows XP are greatly over magnified by a small vocal minority, the computer industry has reported exactly the opposite citing the much higher reliability, stability and much fewer support calls.)A 40Gb drive is really very small for todays systems, I would at least double that. The same for the memory 256Mb is passable but 512 or 1024 would be better, especially on a new system.

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Well XP it is, and i'll go for 51mb of ddr ram. The ddr/sd ram conflict kinda confused me. As far as the Athlon AMD XP1800 what about that, and for card probable a GeForece 4 at 64mb. ANd what sound card would you recommend?

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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I meant 512 megs of ddr ram not 51, my bad. Any other input I should know.

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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As for the CPU, I use Intel, so someone here using AMD could probably give you better advice on that.As for the video card if you want a GeForce 4 card I'd recommend the GeForce 4 TI 4400 as good bang for the buck, or a GeForce 4 TI 4600 for performance at a price.Sound card, a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 card.

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Well of you are strapped for bucks and want to go for AMD CpusThen the current "sweet spot" is the xp2000+ however the difference between that and the 2400+ is about $100 (for retail boxed cpus) so that is a decision.... $150 or $250.... after that the curve goes up steeply! On the GF4 I have a ti4400/128mb and love it, but I've had it for a while and currently there is a ti4200/oets(sp) that uses outside air for cooling that has similar performance and is about $50 cheaper than the 4400.... I got my grandson's machine a ti4200/DDR-64mb for $99 at Compusa for Christmas... don't know if they have any left but it works real good in his xp1900+ w/512mb DDR2700 memory....Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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So what is the price difference between the AMD XP1800 and the XP2000+
Really imma try to keep the cpu unit(not including speakers and monitor) to around $700, give or take a $100. But im going to search around and see what I can come up with. I also hear a lot of people talking about a "overclocked HD" whats that?

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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Here are OEM (no fan and only 30 day warranty) prices
from Price-Watch right now....AMD/Athlon-XP (These are benchmarked equiv. ratings)
1500 - $51
1600 - $49
1700 - $47
1800 - $59
1900 - $67
2000 - $67
2100 - $79
2200 - $126
2400 - $173
2600 - $274
2700 - $324
2800 - not openly available yet
3000 - not openly available yet
Intel/Pentium 4 (These are Mhz Core Clock Speeds)
1500 - $119
1600 - $130
1700 - $132
1800 - $150
1900 - $192
2000 - $171
2200 - $165
2260 - $174
2400 - $185
2530 - $218
2600 - $270
2800 - $271
3060 - $631
Chuck Schneider
(Virtual) CEO
North American (Virtual) Locomotive Works

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Well I hear that AMD is better suited for MSTS. So thats why im going with AMD, and its cheaper too. A local cpu store owner I talked with, and I told him what I was looking for, and he said for MSTS that AMD processors would be better. Which would you people prefer, AMD or Pentium? and why?
P.S. I hate to bug the forum like this, but I would like all the input I can get before telling the guy what I want to go into it. And if i want to run long trains, what would I need to bump up to. I
know that I will need more memory, but anything else?

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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I personally can't see how anyone could claim that either Intel or AMD would be better for MSTS over the other. It's more a matter of preference, (Ford or Chevrolet), and price.
"if i want to run long trains, what would I need to bump up"
Memory, memory, memory and the best video card you can afford.

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Well he might have just been trying to throw a hard sales pitch, but he was bragging on AMD pretty hard. I think I will jump it up to 714megs of ddr, and probably no higher. But maybe 768. Before the final decision, is there anything else that I might wanna know about?
Otherwise thank you all for your advice and input, and hopefully in a couple of weeks, i'll really be able to sim a lot harder than I am now. Thank you all.

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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KC_Jones
Charter Member

Jan-25-03, 08:48 AM (EDT)

25. "RE: Best OS For MSTS"
In response to message #16

A program can be optimized to run better on one proccessor or the other. Intel (20-step) and AMD (10-step) proccesors are very different in how they anticipate the next instruction to be proccessed. In general, programs not optimized for either will run faster on an AMD. However, a program optimized for an Intel will blow AMD out of the water. MSTS code does not seem to be optimized for anything and therefore the AMD is the better choice.

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Then get the Intel P4 3.06 Ghz Dual proccesor!

------My favourite LUL train------

HAPPY NOW? It's not moving anymore.
It's still the same train but in another livery, that's all.

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Well make sure you get at least 512mb DDR RAM for the system. AMD sounds ok but I'm not sure how much a difference there is between Intel and AMD. Make sure you get a Geforce 4 Ti42/44/4600... make sure it has 128mb RAM too. NEVER consider getting the Geforce 4 MX440 with 64mb RAM. It's almost as bad as a Geforce 2 and isn't even worthy of calling a Geforce 4. Make sure your HD is 7200RPM, it really makes the diff. between 5400, and make sure it's at the very least 20GB. As for CD-ROM, any 52X should be ok. A burner is suggested too but not immediately nessacary. You should also probably grab a 19' monitor, it doesn't have to be flat LCD, CRT is good enough. One more thing or two: Make sure the sound is a Soundblaster Live 5.1, Soundblaster Audigy, or XB Gamer. Also make sure the motherboard DOES NOT HAVE ONBOARD VIDEO! I can't stress this more. They're a total pain in the ass for disabling and they never become of use anyways. Other than that, you're set. I'm getting a system myself also so that's why I felt I should help you out too. I'm getting a Pentium 4 2.0Ghz, 256mb RAM, 40GB 7200RPM HD, using my Geforce 2 MX400 64mb for now, Soundblaster Live 5.1, 21' LCD flat, BenWin 3 pc. with woofer. That my system and it's coming to me for $300 with CPU, mobo, case, and RAM only. Other things I'm picking up later. CHARTER MEMBER - Since August 2001 Looks Like a Pony, RUNS LIKE A STALLION

September 11th, 2001: I stand united! Peace to those who perished... R.I.P

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MSI Mainboard!!! I have got the latest MSI KT4 Ultra and I must say it is THE BEST board out there..especially for gamers!! However.. Don't get the Athlon 1600+ and lower.. stick with the higher numbers like the 2100+If you want the best prices.. go to pricewatch.com and also go to newegg.com...the customer service rep at newegg is THE BEST EVER!!!!!! And Very Reasonable Prices!!

Brian E. Bundridge
Seattle, Wa

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Man I was looking at the PC World magazine and I saw a gateway, or either dell with the new 3.04 gig processor and a 21 flat lcd, the whole works for only (get this) a measly $3499.00 Its not too many things you can get at this price. But thanks macster, I will check out these sites in a few. But the guy who is building mines used to work at a cpu, and he can get his parts a wholesale price. Gotta love those inside jobs. But if I can get them cheaper at any of those sites, I surely will. Also a cd burner is a must have for me,
I also thought about getting a dvd/r drive too. But theres a lot of trouble that goes into that, getting the right cd and all.

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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Its my husbands hobby but i like them too. Trains that is.
Any way, one more dumb question, before he drives me nuts, please if someone can.
I have a Toshiba Laptop, 2100cds, all thats in it is win98, and internet access. loaded both discs fine enough memory and storage, but I click the icon on the desktop, it starts, about 5 secs later, screen goes right back to destop.
any idea's. I thought it may be video frivers but I think they are ok, it supports, video and things only 2 years old even though thats ancient in comps these days.
I only need to have the laptop usable for him for a few weeks till I can buy a new desktop for me and give him mine.
Thanks in advance, if anyone can help me.Ginny

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Well, I've commented on this before, so I'll comment again. I've seen some really questionable statements made this time though. Like the one about Win ME being the stopgap until XP was done is a crock. They are completely different in nature. XP is a 32 bit system like NT, to provide an OS for networking and multitasking while the ME is just another "improved" 16 bit Windows. Also, what would a network administrator know about Win 98, or ME - they should be using NT, 2000, or XP Pro. For goodness sake, go to the Microsoft website and do a little research. As for the difference between AMD and Intel processors, its not quite just a matter of opinion. Go to the really hot gaming sites or look at the top gaming platforms. Most of them prefer AMD. I am currently using BOTH ME and XP for MSTS and have NO trouble with either one. My MSTS folder is 9.2 Gig. Both computers are running AMD Athalon processors with 512 Meg RAM which I really consider a minimum. Its not DDR but I wish it was. If you get a good deal on a system, dont worry if it has ME or XP. If you keep your registry clean and resources as high as possible (over 90%)you should be o.k. ...Now, any flamers, go ahead.

rich

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KC_Jones
Charter Member

Jan-25-03, 09:08 AM (EDT)

26. "RE: Best OS For MSTS"
In response to message #23

Amazing how much misinformation is beeing flung around here.The last 16-bit version of windows was windows 3.1. Everything windows 3.11 for workgroups and higher has been and still is 32-bit.There is a 64-bit version of XP available, but you won't find it at your local best buy.XP is built on microsofts' NT kernel. The NT kernel was developed for network server applications. Flavors of windows built on NT are windows NT (ver. 4), windows2000 pro, and now XP home and XP pro.Win ME is still the original chicago (win95) kernel. Originally, microsoft had intended to release a win2000 home version alon with win200 pro. Both would be built on the NT kernel. Win2000 home never happened, we got winME instead. It wasn't until the release of XP that the win95 kernel got put to rest for good. Flavors of chicago are win95A, win95B, win98, win98SE, and finally winME.

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By golly KC, you're right. I checked a copy of MCSE2000 by Sybex and they have several "history" pages of operating systems in chap. 5. I originally got my Erroneous windows history/application info a few years ago from a TEACHER that was also MCSE certified. I should have been suspicious when, from his endorsement, I blew a hundred bucks on a copy of NT only to find out that it wouldn't run half of the software out there. To hear him rave about it I thought NT was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It sits on a shelf now, unused. He should be selling refrigerators to eskimos or selling used cars. Thanx for the correction.

rich

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>Amazing how much misinformation is being flung around here.True, your disseminating it.>The last 16-bit version of windows was windows 3.1.
>Everything windows 3.11 for workgroups and higher has been
>and still is 32-bit. Not completely true, again check your facts. Every version of Windows from Windows 95 through Windows ME can run 32-bit software, but they are still based on 16-bit DOS in their underpinnings. None of these were true fully 32-bit Operating Systems, Windows NT, Windows 2000 and Windows XP hold that distinction. Win9X kept it's 16-bit code for backwards compatibility with older DOS based applications. This is one of the reasons it is still preferred by many as a gaming platform.Windows 3.11 for Workgroups was installed and run directly over DOS 6.0, you started it by booting from DOS and then started Windows 3.11 from there. Windows 95 - Windows ME still kept DOS behind the scenes, the internal DOS version in Windows 95 was DOS 7.0.

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>Well, I've commented on this before, so I'll comment again.
>I've seen some really questionable statements made this time
>though. Like the one about Win ME being the stopgap until
>XP was done is a crock. They are completely different in
>nature. You should check your facts before you accuse others of mis-information. Windows 98SE according to Microsoft was supposed to be the last version of Windows based on Win9x code. Microsoft had stated their next version for consumers would be the unified platform combining the Windows 2000 code for both home and business, (Windows XP). They realized they were going to be late delivering it, so they backtracked and hurriedly released Windows ME as a stop gap revenue generator.Windows ME has generated a well deserved reputation of being unreliable and buggy. Some pundits call it "Why Me!", or Windows Moronic Edition. While Windows XP has been recognized as the best OS Microsoft has ever released, Windows ME has been recognized as the worst. Anyone claiming to be knowledgeable actively recommending Windows ME to users puts your other advise in question.

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I still maintain that ME is completely different from XP, you even admit that in your message. "Windows 98SE according to Microsoft was supposed to be the last version of Windows based on Win9x code. Microsoft had stated their next version for consumers would be the unified platform combining the Windows 2000 code for both home and business, (Windows XP)." so you said. What amazes me is how many people I know are not having problems with ME despite its deficiencies. I am not trying to recommend ME, I am just saying that if you have ME and are careful, you can eliminate most of the problems before they happen. And as long as I am getting the reliability I have been, I intend to leave ME on my machine. I have XP on my laptop now, and when I build a gaming computer I'll probably use XP. Not everybody can afford to run right out and buy a new OS because somebody says they are doomed if they are running ME.

rich

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I never said that Windows XP and Windows ME aren't completely different, of course they are different. Windows XP is a rock solid 32-bit operating system, Windows ME is a very buggy 16/32-bit operating environment.I didn't say you have to run out and purchase Windows XP, but I wouldn't recommend for anyone to buy Windows ME except to my worst enemies. For anyone who is stuck with Windows ME and don't want to upgrade to Windows XP, I recommend downgrading to Windows 98SE, the last good and fairly stable Win9x release.I steadily upgraded Windows through the years from Windows 3.1 to Windows 3.11 for Workgroups, Windows 95a, Windows 95b, Windows 98, Windows 98SE to my current Windows XP Pro. I never bothered with Windows ME because I already knew all about it's many shortcomings which were well publicized even before it was released. A release that Microsoft owes us all an apology, for releasing it on an unsuspecting world of computer novices and new users.
Note: Post 1000 for me for those who count these things.

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BTW, what is RD RAM? Is it faster than SD/DDR?

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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>BTW, what is RD RAM? Is it faster than SD/DDR? Rambus DRAM, a propriety RAM memory technology from Rambus that was heavily invested in and promoted by Intel corporation. It was specifically made for the Pentium 4 chip and initially all of the Pentium 4 motherboards used it alone. It is not compatible with existing SD/DDR RAM. It is relatively expensive, while technically it is supposed to be faster, there were problems with the supporting Intel chipsets initially designed to support it that limited motherboards using it to only two RAM modules. I've never used it, so someone with firsthand knowledge may chime in. I personally would avoid it and use DDR DRAM instead because of lower cost, higher availability and more open standards.

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Well I asked that because my freind ordered a cpu from Dell and he wanted train sim to run better on it. His old PII was not getting the job done. I gave him the suggestions that you people gave me, but instead he got a Dell Dimension 8250 desktop with a P4 at 2.80gig
pc1040 RDram @ 512mb, a GeForce 4 MX card, a soundblaster card, and several other components and he asked me would this run MSTS better.
I am assuming it will, but he wants to know will he encounter problems installing it. I dont think he should, but I am not familiar with RD Ram either. Your input is appreciated.

member of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SP_MSTS

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It was the Dell systems I was specifically referring to in my comments about Rambus memory. Originally Dell was putting three independent memory banks on each of their system boards, like the one I purchased from them. When they introduced their first Rambus system, they found out belatedly that Rambus didn't work correctly with three memory banks so they limited their motherboards to only two memory banks severely limiting the maximum amount of RAM their systems could be upgraded to.I noticed that the Dell 8250 can be upgraded to a max of 1.5Gb of Rambus memory, but finding ram modules to expand it in the future may be difficult and costly. The following is a quote from my favorite RAM supplier, WWW.crucial.com :"At Crucial Technology we work hard to provide high quality, low-cost memory solutions. Crucial makes every effort to stay at the forefront of the memory industry while providing our customers with what they want and need. We do not currently offer Rambus upgrades because a relatively small number of our customers have expressed interest in it, and we believe that long-term demand for Rambus product will not be great enough for us to maintain the low-cost pricing our customers have come to expect."

It will be interesting to see if overtime Rambus memory survives as a standard.

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