Information and question for all railroad employees her

A lot of railroad employees told me here on a U.S. Diesel Locomotive there's no cab doors on the front of any locos by the nose except for the nose door. I have proved you wrong. I've attached a picture to this message that if you zoom in to the front of the locomotive you can at least see on the right side of the locomotive (looking from the front) you can see there is indeed a cab door on the front of the loco beside the nose. The left side may have a cab door also but I'm not sure because I can't see the whole thing but it has steps up to it also. This may be new to most of you and to darkhorse, here's the picture I told you I'd show you since you said there can be no front cab door on a diesel loco besides the nose door. Of course, maybe that cab door replaces the nose door on that loco since there is no nose door, please tell me if I'm right saying this sentence but still a lot of employees here said there's no room in the front of the cab for a cab door like that. I'm pretty sure there's enough room looking at pictures of simulators I've saw in a GP38 for front cab doors but yet still not sure. (Sorry I couldn't provide more of the loco picture to you but what I had originally planned to post was 400 KB too big to post on this forum.)Also could someone tell me why my picture that I've posted here is grainy on 33.3% zoom until you zoom in on it? (It's .jpeg)I'm currently having problems posting a image file, please don't delete this post, I'll post the picture after Nels is contacted of this problem and he has it fixed.Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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Information and question for all railroad employees her [View All], I_totally_love_trains, 07:40 PM, Oct-12-02, (0) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, Oct-12-02, 07:57 PM, (1) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-12-02, 08:41 PM, (2) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, sniper297, Oct-12-02, 08:44 PM, (3) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-12-02, 08:46 PM, (4) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, LawrenceKellie, Oct-12-02, 09:24 PM, (6) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, highball5, Oct-17-02, 02:59 PM, (22) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, LawrenceKellie, Oct-12-02, 09:24 PM, (5) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-13-02, 10:24 AM, (7) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, Splatter, Oct-13-02, 11:50 AM, (8) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, CRSD40, Oct-13-02, 01:01 PM, (9) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, chuckzeiler, Oct-13-02, 04:31 PM, (11) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, Transcon, Oct-17-02, 09:55 PM, (24) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, georgi55_unactivatedcrap2, Oct-13-02, 01:14 PM, (10) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, BNSF4723, Oct-13-02, 04:54 PM, (12) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-15-02, 03:55 PM, (13) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, jm1941, Oct-15-02, 08:30 PM, (16) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, shoskins, Oct-15-02, 05:30 PM, (14) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-15-02, 08:24 PM, (15) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, chuckzeiler, Oct-16-02, 11:51 AM, (17) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-16-02, 06:41 PM, (18) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, Poltergeist, Oct-16-02, 07:01 PM, (19) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, jm1941, Oct-16-02, 07:48 PM, (20) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, chuckzeiler, Oct-17-02, 01:31 PM, (21) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-17-02, 09:03 PM, (23) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, chuckzeiler, Oct-18-02, 11:33 AM, (25) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-18-02, 08:50 PM, (26) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, Oct-18-02, 11:37 PM, (27) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, chuckzeiler, Oct-19-02, 01:13 PM, (28) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, Oct-19-02, 03:17 PM, (29) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, chuckzeiler, Oct-19-02, 04:10 PM, (30) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, Oct-19-02, 04:27 PM, (31) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, jm1941, Oct-19-02, 06:20 PM, (32) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-20-02, 07:45 PM, (33) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, Oct-20-02, 08:03 PM, (34) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, Lone_Gunman_SG, Oct-21-02, 10:14 AM, (35) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, Poltergeist, Oct-21-02, 10:55 AM, (36) RE: Information and question for all railroad employees, I_totally_love_trains, Oct-21-02, 03:22 PM, (37)

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I really dont get your arugment, if you knew anything about Trains(which supposedly you do) you would know that not all engines are alike, and that the 'raiload employees' you've talked too were refering to engines that only have doors in the nose and behind the cab.
Take for an example, this Auto Train U36B.

It has cab doors on the right side(conductor side), not in the nose.
Now look at this CSX CW60AC/

It has cab doors in the nose, not on the right side.
Both units have some sort of door on the back end of the cab, either on the engineer side or on the conductor side of the units.Greg
HighV0lt6ge - AIM/AOL
gregoryis411@hotmail.com

'No matter how far we've come, I can't wait to see tomorrow.' Linkin Park - With You

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-12-02 AT 08:44 PM (EDT)

Who says I supposedly know everything about trains? I ask all the questions I do because I want to learn a lot more and who says I am picking a fight? Don't assume stuff if you don't know what's true!Ever since 9-11 people have been getting so snobby and worried about terrorists and everyone's calling me a terrorist for asking all my questions when I'm just trying to be a railfan learning something! You shouldn't be worried about terrorists, the NS Conductor that I ask all my questions about the trains now (since you people don't like it) via e-mail never worries about terrorists when he's aboard a train!By the way CSX what's the grabiron on the right side of the CSX Loco nose of the loco you posted for?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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" I've attached a picture to this message", I don't see the picture.

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Apparently you didn't read the last line of my message sniper! DOH!Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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>Apparently you didn't read the last line of my message
>sniper! DOH! Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.Lawrence

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Yeah, Sniper... pay attention, son! LOL!!!!

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>Who says I supposedly know everything about trains? I ask
>all the questions I do because I want to learn a lot more
>and who says I am picking a fight? Don't assume stuff if
>you don't know what's true! That is from your response to a response to your original message.Here is a line from your original message:"I have proved you wrong."That type of language is easily read is trying to pick a fight. Lawrence

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-02 AT 10:27 AM (EDT)

Who's dumb Lawrence?Wouldn't it be easier to use a nose door on all locos because the bathroom is in the nose?CSX_CW60AC_GregMarck, on your first picture what's the light on the nose to the left? It doesn't look like it's a white light.On the 2nd pic what's the railing in between the double track?What's the white tag appearing to be hanging on the CSX Loco Windshield?On the CSX Loco why's there a wall beside the rear cab door and why is there a railing up it?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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I have to ask.Have you ever thought of looking some of this stuff up?There are a great number of books (many found at the library) on locomotives,trains and railroading in general.A search on the net would also answer most of your questions.A little effort could go a long way.

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>On the CSX Loco why's there a wall beside the rear cab door
>and why is there a railing up it? That's not where the rear cab door is. The rear cab door is always located behind the engineer.

-----------------------------

Kyle Norek, Milepost 76 on the NS Buffalo Line
MSN Messenger: crsd40@hotmail.com

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I can answer one of your questions with some accuracy, and I can speculate on another.The non-white light on the nose of the Auto Train U36B is a red warning light. The lower light is a gyrating light, manufactured either by Mars or Pyle-National. In practice, the white gyrating light was the predecessor of the ditch lights, and gyrated in a sideways figure eight pattern (infinity sign), lighting up either side of the track. It provided additional lighting for the locomotive crew, and warning for motorists and pedestrians. Using the same mechanism, the red light would come on automatically with the application of the emergency brake. This would serve to warn approaching trains of an emergency situation. Railroad rules generally prohibit passing an illuminated red light.The fence in between the tracks is probably to prevent passengers from passing across the tracks at grade. Notice that there is an overhead pedestrian crosswalk in the second (CSX) photo, and what appears to be a passenger platform in the lower right corner of the same photo.Auto Train U36B #4009 at Sandford, FL, Feb. 1980

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Since this topic is pretty much pointless, I'm gonna try to put some point into it...Isn't there bathrooms in the nose of widecabs?

------------------------------------------------------------I'll never let go of the railroad that inspired me to be involved with trains, the Union Pacific!John Ekhoff
14 yr. old Train Sim Reskinner from Abilene, Texas.A member of the Yonder Locomotive Works.

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Why do you have to turn in interesting question in to BS....
I wish Transcon or someone else had (sorry if i spelled wrong) asked this question.
You are just one sick man.Georgi

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excuse me georgi,I'm not sure if the use of the word "sick man" is approriate here. Maybe puzzled or confused man but not sick. The guy is not raping children or anything so choose your words more carefully next time please.--- In no way was that meant as an argument, just a correction.*~þHÃt*Rat~**~classic american playa~*


www.atlanticsystem.tkSkinner #2 at Atlantic System

September 11th, 2001: I stand united! Peace to those who perished... R.I.P

TTC Y-U-S subway line - 5% complete

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Who are you guys talking about being a sick man?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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Please Adam.... I've helped your here a lot over time with your questions, now I am asking you to do me a great favour in return. Please let the sick remark go over your head. Forget it.
It is certainly NOT worth the effort to even query about it.
PLEASE IGNORE it. Okay. THANKS in advance if you can DO this.

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As the picture didn't come through, perhaps what you are thinking of -- with a nose door AND a side door on each side -- may have been an F45 or FP45. Those had both side doors as well as a nose door.Most of the wide-nose units, such as the Dash 9, have a nose door -- and also a door behind the engineer on the right side which goes out to the rear catwalk.If you think there might be doors in the nose, those are probably access hatches for electrical equipment, not entry/exit doors.

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No, on some wide nose locos there is a big tall door in the middle of the nose on some locos and then the headlights are up above the windshield.Could someone tell me on a old zephyr locomotive what's the point of a front nose door if you walk out there and there's nothing for you to step onto?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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I assume that by "old zephyr locomotive" you mean an Electro Motive Division (EMD) E or F model locomotive. If this is the case, the door is there to allow access to trailing locomotives while en-route.On passenger locomotives, the steam generator often needed attention during transit. Some railroads had two steam generators per locomotive, so one or both could be in operation (depending on the weather), or one could be shut down if it failed. The fireman would have to walk throught the engine compartment of the lead locomotive, open the nose door of the second locomotive, and pass through to gain access to the steam generator(s) in the trailing unit(s).There have also been instances where the lead locomotive failed while in transit, and the engineer sent the fireman back to the second locomotive to operate the controls and get the train over the road until they arrived at a location where the lead locomotive could be serviced or replaced.BTW, the Chicago Burlington & Quincy (CB&Q) Railroad favored all A (cab) passenger locomotives (called "motors" on the CB&Q), running "elephant style" (all cabs facing the direction of travel), so that in the event of a problem with the lead unit (i.e. it hit something on the track), the lead unit could be set out an the nearest siding and the train could continue on, controlled (properly) from the second unit, which would now be the lead.CB&Q E-7 #9927A at the Zephyr Pit in Chicago, IL March 7, 1965

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If the nose door comes back with the headlight (in your photo) then how does the engineer see ahead?In a zephyr is there a tunnel through the engine of a locomotive or do you got to walk all the way around it when going through the engine compartment?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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>If the nose door comes back with the headlight (in your
>photo) then how does the engineer see ahead? All the engineer have to do to either stick his head out the window like in old timey steam engine, or just look out ahead. Man its not that hard to look out one of these units, I know I've ridden one before. If you are referring to right in front of them, well the chances are of whatever was in front of them is nothing but "rail-killed" by the time the train hit them. The nose style were popular in those time, Santa Fe, Southern, and numerous other railraods used similar engine. -----------------------------



-----------------------------

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Adam, if that leading engine in that photo with the door open was travelling along, and being the lead engine, there would be no reason what-so-ever to open that door at all. (unless one of the crew had hot chilli peppers for tea) Those doors on front of the engines are only if the conductor needs to go BACK though the engine into the TRAILING engine(s) while travelling along. The engineer would easily see ahead all the time with headlight on, and the headlight on the trailing engine(s) the lights would never be turned on anyway.

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Adam, John is correct. The lead locomotive would not be moved over the road with the front door open.Below is a floor plan of an EMD E-7, showing the layout of the internal components. Notice that there are two diesel engines (prime movers). Assuming that this is the second locomotive in the consist, and that the lead locomotive is coupled to the front of this locomotive, I've drawn a red line to indicate the path that the fireman would take to get to the steam generator, which is located at the back of the locomotive. The fireman could walk down either side of the inside of the locomotive to gain access to the steam generator, or he could continue on to the next locomotive (if necessary).

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Don't some engineers leave a trailing unit headlight on to easily see the first car in the consist easier? I heard that somewhere.Also another question that was never answered. On that CSX Diesel Loco picture earlier in this thread what's that wall on the edge of the catwalk on the side of the first loco?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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Railroad rules generally require the headlight to be illuminated while the train is moving, except when meeting another train. This serves not only to provide right of way illumination, but also to mark the front of the train and provide an indication of the direction of travel. I have seen instances of the rear headlight being on while the train was travelling forward, but my conclusion was that it was because the engineer forgot to turn it off after a reverse move. That's just a guess on my part.The large box behind the conductor's position on the CSX locomotive identifies it as an AC powered locomotive. The large box contains six inverters (one per traction motor, allowing for more precise control over each axle). My opinion of GE locomotive design is that they simply slap new or re-designed components on the locomotive where ever they will fit, regardless of how it affects the overall appearance of the locomotive. For instance, the car body between the dynamic brake/inverter box section and the radiators dates back the the U25B (about 1964) and the rest of the locomotive's car body was added-on/changed/modified, to accomodate changes in the internal components. The people at GM seem to take the time to try to fit the components into the overall design scheme. Again, just my opinion.

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chuckzeiler, did you refer to the box behind the conductor's position as the big wall behind the conductor's position that usually isn't there?Do you turn off the headlight when approaching another train?A train crew would never take you from a passenger car into a zephyr cab (like in the scenic railroad I rode in Missouri this summer) because it's such a dangerous walk up there?How do you get from a passenger car to a diesel loco cab?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-18-02 AT 11:46 PM (EDT)

>>did you refer to the box behind the conductor's position as the big wall behind the conductor's position that usually isn't there?Heres an ExampleCW44-9 No AC
CW44AC AC

Note : All CSX units equipped with AC have lighting stipes either under the engine number, or on both sides of it.(CW60AC's are the only current units to have double light stripes, all other AC's have single)
>> How do you get from a passenger car to a diesel loco cab?Diaphram : All passenger cars either have platforms on either side, or have diaphrams between the cars. This allowed the passengers to walk between cars. Now to get to the engine, you would have to go up to the lead passneger car, and usually there would be a diaphram connecting to the nose/platform or the last engine.
Pics of Passenger Cars connected.

Engines, for example a ABBA lashup(see uploaded picture for an example of one) have diaphrams conecting some of the units. And their were Diaphrams between the A-B, B-B, B-A. And the last A unit facing the passenger cars, w/ a diaphram coming close enough to the cab door of the last unit.(see the ealier pic)
I can't find pictures to describe what I'm saying.I hope this makes sense, I'm extremly tired.
Greg
HighV0lt6ge - AIM/AOL
gregoryis411@hotmail.com

'No matter how far we've come, I can't wait to see tomorrow.' Linkin Park - With You

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First, my thanks to Greg Marck for his assistance in explaining the properties of an AC powered locomotive. I'm sorry to say that the newer developments in locomotive design have eluded me, so I defer to Greg for an explanation of the "box" behind the conductor's position, as there is also a box on the DC powered locomotive. I do not know the purpose of that box.Regarding the headlight, I will refer you to the General Code of Operating Rules. Here is a link to the page on headlights.
http://www.cwrr.com/Lounge/Reference/rules/signals.html#5.9As for passage between a passenger car and a locomotive, this would almost NEVER be done, except in an extreme emergency. Besides the obvious risk to life and limb, there are insurance reasons why the train crew would not permit a passenger to pass between a passenger car and a locomotive. And, of course, in this day and age, there are security issues.

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np ChuckI think the box on the non ac units box house air compressor for the train's air, as seen on this CR SD80MAC

and on this UP SD90MAC

but, non AC SD70Ms do not have as big of a box as do its younger siblings, so maybe it does house AC equipment

But, yet again, I'm not sure, because the SD80/90MACS are made by EMD, not GE.Hope this sheds some light on the question, but hopefully someone could better explain this.Greg
HighV0lt6ge - AIM/AOL
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'No matter how far we've come, I can't wait to see tomorrow.' Linkin Park - With You

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Some specifications on the GE's
https://www.getransportation.com/general/locomotives/specsheets.aspAs for the GM's, I cannot find on-line info at this time, however, looking up the SD-90 on http://www.trains.com/home.asp using their magazine search, I came up with an article in Railroad Model Craftsman magazine, which identified the boxes thusly:"A distinctive left-side spotting feature shared with the SD80MAC is the inverter cabinet on the running board immediately behind the cab, followed by the traction motor cooling duct and the housing for the blower. A short walkway with steps leading to it bridges the gap between the cabinets".

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LAST EDITED ON Oct-19-02 AT 04:29 PM (EDT)

sounds good, thanks for the info chuck.
ohh, and yeah, its my 600th Post, god it takes forever to get this many, I wonder how Sniper has managed to get 3 grand.Greg
HighV0lt6ge - AIM/AOL
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'No matter how far we've come, I can't wait to see tomorrow.' Linkin Park - With You

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Hi folks,Thanks Chuck, Greg, and others for interesting information and explanations in this thread and thanks to Adam TS's young fellow with the enquiring mind. Maybe one day another Professor Sumner Miller. "WHY? IS IT SO" (he was a great fellow)I'm not from the US, but you have shown an O F from down under some more insights into US engines, enjoyed it. Thanks again and I really liked those engine pictures with names to them.It is great idea when posting any pictures that the name of engine be supplied with it and just maybe a little bit of information. Nothing worse than one has no idea what the engine(s) name is, than to click "Save As" with a question mark as a file name.

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On the CSX Loco why's there a railing up the wall behind the conductor's side? There's no room to walk on top that little wall is there and if there is how do you get up on it anyway?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

-------------------------------

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I do not know the exact reason, but it's most likely railings so incase someone needs acess to the vents them have some safety measures up there.Greg
HighV0lt6ge - AIM/AOL
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'No matter how far we've come, I can't wait to see tomorrow.' Linkin Park - With You

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i also have a question. In elementary school some guys from the railroad came in and talked to us about railroad safety etc. They also told us there is a bathroom in the nose. Is that true?
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*sigh* again with the bathroom, I swear half of yall are going to be Janitors when you grow up! lol I'm just messin' with yall, yall are alright. Norfolk and Western Fan!

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Yes, there's a bathroom in the nose Lone Gunman.I saw a CONRAIL loco today with a box that you've explained to me what it is above on the walkway and it had steps up over it and then a walkway over to the back catwalk window. Why don't they just make it steps up and over and down the box so they can have a cab door on that side as well?Adam-------------------------------Wishing you and your relatives, family, and friends to have a very Happy Thanksgiving!

Be the safest most customer focused and successful transportation company in the world13-Time Consecutive Winner of the Harriman Award
Currently my favorite U.S.A. Freight Transportation RailRoad
Hoping to be a future Norfolk Southern Freight Train Conductor and then a engineer
Norfolk Southern's Freight Transportation RailRoad Official Website -- http://www.nscorp.com

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